The order of the head of the judiciary to release Rajai Shahr prison, which some media outlets have interpreted as an impulsive decision by the head of the judiciary, has raised many concerns. The relocation of Rajai Shahr prison could affect the situation of prisoners, the access of families to the prison, and the remaining effects of forty years of human rights violations in this prison. In light of this issue, Khat-e-Solh monthly magazine decided to address this matter in a conversation with Seyyed Nasr Qavami, former judge of the Supreme Court, former religious ruler, former head of the eighth branch of the Islamic Revolutionary Court, and current head of the Judiciary and Legal Commission of the Sixth Parliament of the Islamic Consultative Assembly. They asked him whether this issue was raised during his time in the judiciary and parliament, and what are the reasons for this relocation. Mr. Qavami also mentioned the demands of the people of the region for the relocation of the prison

The spokesperson in the peace talks said: “Another reason for this could be related to political issues; that the area in front of the prison has turned into a place where people gather and protest. In any case, this place is inside the city and therefore the issue arises that these gatherings and protests turn into anti-government propaganda. As we have recently seen, a large crowd has been gathering and protesting in front of Rajaei Shahr prison.”

You can read the full conversation of the monthly magazine “Khat-e-Solh” with Seyyed Nasr Qavami, former judge of the Supreme Court, former religious ruler, former head of the 8th branch of the Islamic Revolutionary Court and former head of the Judiciary and Legal Commission of the 6th Parliament of the Islamic Council, below:

You were the head of the Judiciary Commission in the sixth session of the Islamic Council. In recent years, we have witnessed the relocation of prisons from within cities to outside of them. Recently, Gholamhossein Mohseni Ejei, the head of the Judiciary, has ordered the closure of Rajai Shahr prison. Similar news had also been published about Evin prison and Qezel Hesar prison. Was this topic also discussed during your time and does it have a history? What is your opinion on this plan and the discussions surrounding it?

During our time in the sixth term of the Islamic Consultative Assembly, there was no discussion about the relocation of prisons, the judiciary, or the organization of prisons. However, the issue is that some prisons do not have a good location. For example, the Choubindar prison in Qazvin is located in the Choubindar area of the city, and the people of that area are greatly disturbed by the presence of the prison and the related issues. These people are currently demanding a change in the location of this prison to another place. I want to say that nowadays, such social issues are being raised. But two decades ago, this issue was not brought up.

What responsibilities does the council have regarding legislation in this matter?

These issues are related to the Ministry of Interior and do not require approval from the parliament. If the government comes to the conclusion that this task needs to be done, they can do it themselves. For example, one of the reasons could be the same thing I mentioned in response to your previous question; that prisoners are currently located in the middle of the city and causing problems for the people. In such a situation, the municipality of that area or the government can relocate the prison to another place and turn that area into a museum or another use.

An example of this happened in Qasr Prison. After the victory of the revolution, Qasr Prison was active and we also visited it once or twice. But Qasr Prison in Tehran caused problems and therefore it was closed. It is likely that Evin and Rajai Shahr prisons will also face the same situation.

In your opinion, in addition to the issues you have raised, why has the judiciary made such a decision?

There could be two possible reasons for this to be brought up here. One is the same reason I mentioned before, which is that the locals of that area have requested for this prison to be relocated. The other reason could be related to political issues; that the area in front of the prison has become a place for people to gather and protest. In any case, this location is within the city and therefore the issue is raised that these gatherings and protests could turn into anti-government propaganda. Recently, there have been frequent gatherings and protests in front of Rajai Shahr prison. They probably want to move the location of the prison to a place where if people gather in front of it, it won’t have as much of a propaganda aspect.

Do you believe this decision is practical? Mohammad Javad Kolivand, former representative of the parliament, stated in 1396 that Rajai Shahr prison is a government prison and will not be relocated.

This depends on the credibility and budget that is allocated to it. Moving Evin or Rajai Shahr prisons from their current location to another suitable place costs a lot of money and requires national funding, and it is unlikely that it can be done with the budget of the county and municipalities. For example, if you want to relocate the Adel Abad prison in Shiraz, it requires a large and national budget. That is, moving these facilities and prisons to another place is not an easy task; it requires a lot of funding and will also be time-consuming.

In your opinion, does the relocation of prisoners (especially outside the city) not make conditions more difficult for their families? For example, families have to travel a longer distance for each visit, which may not be financially feasible for them. Shouldn’t measures be taken into consideration for this?

Yes, of course, there are difficulties for families of prisoners. For example, in Tehran, the majority of political prisoners are in Evin prison. But if they want to move these prisoners to a place, for example, one hundred kilometers away, there will certainly be numerous problems for the families of the prisoners.

During our time as representatives in the sixth parliament, we went to a city in South Khorasan province. When we arrived in that city, we saw that a group of people had gathered in a desert area and were happy because a prison was going to be built near the city. The Minister of Interior at the time, Mr. Mousavi Lari, inaugurated the construction. I asked why the people were happy about building a prison. They told me that the prisoners from this city and the surrounding area were currently being held in Mashhad city, and every time their families wanted to visit them, they had to travel hundreds of kilometers. Now that a prison is being built here, the prisoners from this region will be held here as well.

Therefore, undoubtedly, taking the prison far away will create numerous problems for the families of the prisoners. Moreover, as I mentioned, relocating these prisons to another place has very high costs.

Another point is the discussion of the environmental conditions of prisoners. For example, in the 1990s, a portion of political prisoners, especially after events like the November 98 protests, were transferred to the large Tehran prison. However, the conditions in this prison are very different from those in Evin prison, and there are significant differences in the conditions of prisoners in this prison compared to Evin. The question here is to what extent is it the responsibility of the prison organization and the judiciary to provide minimum conditions for prisoners?

Finally, a prison is just a prison. During the time of the Shah, after giving a speech during the month of Ramadan in Fasa, Shiraz, I was arrested and transferred to Adelabad prison in Shiraz. The prison has its own issues. The facilities in the prison are very limited. During the time of the Shah, there were 50 to 55 political prisoners in one ward in Adelabad prison in Shiraz. This ward only had two or three dirty showers, the toilet conditions were inadequate, and overall hygiene was not good.

During the sixth parliament, when we, as representatives and members of the judiciary commission, visited prisoners in Bandar Abbas, the place and arrangement that we were supposed to inspect were always prepared and organized beforehand. We would go and see that everything, such as beds and blankets, were in order. However, it was not always like this, and there were problems. They had prepared the place to show us that the prison was well-organized and had no issues. This was while they had told us that after the victory of the revolution, there were only three prisoners for drug offenses. But now (when we went to visit), there were about 250 prisoners for drug offenses.

As someone who was once a prisoner myself, I know that prison conditions are terrible and there are issues with illness and lack of care for individuals, which we also experienced in the Shah’s prison.

Does it mean that as a representative of the parliament, you knew that these prison conditions that you see are not real and they show you a clean and organized situation?

Yes, it was clear. We had seen the prison ourselves and knew that the current conditions were not the same as when we were visiting. It was a visit. We found out that they had set up the place to show us.

After you and other representatives, were you not protesting that the real situation of the prison is not like this? Did you not want to see the real situation?

No, they didn’t allow us to see everywhere anyway. They only showed us certain halls. Of course, I would tell them that God willing, the conditions in all parts of the prison are just as organized as these halls. The prisoners didn’t dare to say that they had recently organized and cleaned these halls, bathrooms, toilets, and places to show you. Of course, we understood that the conditions are not always this organized.

Thank you for the time you have given us in the monthly publication of the Peace Line.