Sara Kashkouli is an Iranian teacher at an international school in the city of Gaborone, the capital of Botswana. She is an art teacher. Botswana is a country in southern Africa with a population of less than three million people. The majority of the people in this country are Catholic Christians. Sara Kashkouli has been teaching at this school for a year and a half and she talks about the freedom, happiness, and dancing of the people, students, and teachers in this country. We found her through her daily posts about teaching in Africa on social media in our magazine, “Peace Line”. We asked her to tell us about teaching in Botswana and its differences with Iran, as well as the position of teaching in this country. The discussion led to the role of religion in schools, sexual education, and the coexistence of girls and boys in elementary schools. The result is what is published here.

You are reading the transcript of the interview with Sara Kashkouli, an Iranian teacher in the city of Gaborone, Botswana, in the monthly magazine of Khat-e-Solh.

What made you become a teacher in Botswana?

I lived in Turkey for 4 years and I decided to go to Canada with my husband. An acquaintance suggested a country in southern Africa called Botswana and an international school that needs a young, active and energetic teacher. He said that based on your resume, you would be a good fit there. We had never heard of Botswana before and we immediately looked it up. We made the decision right then and there. Teaching, especially at the elementary level, was very appealing to me. It seemed like a very exciting experience. We thought that if we wanted to go to America or Canada, we would have to start from scratch and work for years to get where we wanted. We thought, why not go somewhere that needs us? We both came to Botswana because of the school. If there was no school, we wouldn’t have come to Botswana.

Have you also had teaching experience in Iran?

I have worked in education and training, but I have also taught in schools and institutions.

What were you teaching?

French language

You have taught in institutions and schools in Iran, and you are currently teaching in Botswana at the elementary level. What is the biggest difference between these two life experiences for you?

I am free from here. I can do whatever I want independently. I can teach my students anything I want, from environmental issues to women’s rights and gender equality. I can tell my children whatever I want and no one will question why I am saying these things to them. I can express my beliefs or lack thereof. Even my students can freely express themselves. But in educational centers in Iran, we do not have this freedom. The difference is huge, from the ground to the sky. Just the fact that girls and boys can sit together is a very important issue that I had never experienced before.

What ages are included in this primary section in Botswana?

From six years old to twelve years old.

You spoke about the freedom of speech. How does this freedom affect your teaching and its method? Is teaching teacher-centered or student-centered? Please explain a little.

Our school is international and private, and it is different from government schools here. In government schools, the same teacher-centered system that we have in Iran is in place and they follow the same method. But in private and international schools, it is different. Here, they try to use new methods. That means it is both teacher-centered and student-centered. In Botswana, private schools can determine their own teaching method. It is not like Iran where a person must pass through the seven levels of Rostam or be obligated to follow a specific method.

Our school is under the supervision of Cambridge and the general method and exams are based on it. But at the same time, the teacher has the freedom to make changes. For example, if we have half an hour of class using the general method, as an art teacher, I can use games, performances, or any creative method. I have the opportunity to hold my class outside of the school or in the school yard. It is not necessary to follow a specific method.

In government schools, there are routine and specific lessons that are taught using traditional and conventional methods. However, it is not the case that the same method is necessarily used in private and international schools.

Does it mean that the course materials are different or is it simply a matter of teaching method?

Not just a teaching method, but it is possible that some of the subjects taught in private schools may not be taught in government schools.

How did you get accepted there as a teacher?

In Botswana, in order to teach, you must have a Teaching certificate, which signifies the skills of teaching. I obtained my degrees in the field of art in Iran and Turkey. Alongside that, I also had my Teaching certificate. This means that with this certificate, which demonstrates my skills in teaching art to students, I am currently teaching here.

Let me enter your classroom for a while. How are your relationships with students and what is the classroom environment like?

Of course, it is not possible to answer this question in general. Every teacher has their own method. Here, there is also a teacher who puts pressure on the children and bullies them. Because they are a teacher and have the right to make decisions. But in my method, the class is completely in the hands of the children. That is, more than me, the children decide what to do. The children themselves should decide what should happen to make them happier.

Of course, it varies from level to level. I am an elementary school teacher. There is less pressure on elementary students. As the levels go higher, this pressure increases everywhere.

Is the space you imagined for your subject, art, or does it happen in other classes as well?

This space is very relevant to the art lesson. But I also know a math and science teacher in our school who has a good and free class. On the other hand, there is also an art teacher who only comes and teaches the principles. That means everything depends on the teacher and there can’t be a general answer. In addition to art, we also have music in our school and this music class is very active. The beauty of our school is the joy in it. That means every day the children are practicing for performance. They dance in school or if someone sings or dances in the middle of math class, the teacher doesn’t scold them. If they make noise, the teacher scolds them.

You spoke of the joy of school. Let’s compare it with your experience in Iran. Where do you think the difference lies?

There are fundamental problems in Iran. Consider the same coverage that exists for elementary school to what happens in higher levels. Here, if there is a celebration or event, it starts with prayers and in complete silence. But in Iran, there was force and coercion. For example, we were forced to listen to the Quran in line. Or for example, in school, musical instruments were not allowed to be played. Notes and topics related to music were not taught. We learned note reading in music class. But here, students know all about notes and music. But what about us?! Our celebrations were either with eulogies or with mourning! We didn’t have anything for joy. I remember once holding a big clock in my hand. We were having a celebration. Our supervisor grabbed me and asked, “What is this aquarium in your hand?!” We couldn’t even wear white socks. Joy comes from small things. In our school, there is also the order and discipline that a student

Does this joy, dancing, and music have its roots in the school environment or is it more general and related to the culture of society?

To both. In my opinion, to both. Because here, even the poorest people, wherever they may be, dance to the smallest sound of music. Teachers dance alongside children in school to the smallest sound of music.

Let’s go back to you as a teacher in the classroom. What is the evaluation system like?

As I mentioned, the teacher decides for themselves. Language, art, music, and sports teachers decide whether or not to have exams. I don’t give exams to my students. I believe that the system should not be competitive. I expressed this on the first day of school and told the principal and vice principal, and they fully agreed with my approach. However, for example, the music teacher at our school holds exams. The grading system is also descriptive.

How is competition created among students in this context?

I don’t have an opinion about other lessons. But I have to spend the necessary time for each student. For example, for someone who has a lower level than others, I spend more time. I myself was a student, a math teacher and an artist. If I got an 18 in math, the same teacher would give me an 18 in my art. This was wrong. Math has its own place and art has its own place. I think the competition that exists in math has no meaning in art. For example, someone may want their car tire to be square! Or someone may want their car tire to be round like all other cars! I can’t determine which one is better. Because it has formed in their mind. But the issue is the creativity that the student has.

How are the other classes? Math or science?

There is a lot of competition there.

Regarding creativity, you mentioned how it is created. Is this creativity taught in school or is it a result of societal culture?

In my opinion, society doesn’t have much influence. However, Africans are generally creative. You can see this on the streets. They have created things with the least resources. Maybe in recent years, we have learned that we can make art with recycled materials. But their resources are only these recycled items and they have used them creatively. For example, I see a child in very poor neighborhoods on the streets who has made a car with a milk carton, four stones or a bottle cap, and a string. You see a lot of these things on the streets.

The truth is that Botswana has recently made some progress and compared to other African countries, they have a relatively higher level of financial status. However, I believe that both the society and the lack of resources have led to the creation of creativity, and also the fact that children here have a creativity class from pre-school and learn things. For example, what I learned at the age of 25, they learn about creativity from pre-school.

Regarding the financial conditions of the people in Botswana, you mentioned. Let’s also talk a little about school fees. What is the difference between government, non-profit, and private schools? I would appreciate it if you could explain a little.

Public schools in general do not have tuition fees and are free. Education is mandatory in Botswana until grade 7. There are also government universities and high schools here. Since last year, there has also been a government preschool. All government schools, from preschool to high school and university, are free. However, private schools are very expensive. There are also a lot of them. For example, in the area where our school is located, there are five private schools. The costs also vary from school to school. For example, our school is a well-known school with five branches. That’s why the cost for each semester starts from $800 to $900 and goes up.

Also, as far as I know, it is the schools themselves that determine the costs and there is no supervision over these prices.

In such economic conditions, the lower classes who do not have sufficient income, will not have access to a school like yours.

It is completely correct.

Therefore, there is an economic and social inequality in access to education.

Yes, it exists. It is true that students from high economic and social classes enroll in our school, but there are also many students who pay the school fees in installments. Or ten years ago, the parent would send their child to school and instead of paying the tuition, they would give a cow or sheep. Now, of course, it is not like that.

Let’s go back to school and classes. You mentioned that boys and girls are together in the same class. This is a strange occurrence for the Iranian society in recent decades. I wanted to know the situation of co-education for different genders there.

When I came here, this issue was strange to me. I am an elementary school teacher and I see that gender doesn’t matter. Except for fourth and fifth grade where children are at an age where gender becomes an issue and they play around with each other. But what fascinates me is that this connection in the classroom is without gender, between students and between teacher and student. I have never heard a girl in my class say that boys are bullying them. Or boys saying that girls are bullying them. Or that this girl or boy did something. The children either call each other by name or say “hey you!” meaning with a gesture. At first, when I wanted to say “be quiet”, I would say “boys be quiet”. Well, that means only boys are making noise! Or for example, I would only point to the girls. Then when I studied, I realized that this was wrong. With this behavior, I am highlighting gender.

But eventually, from a young age, the physical differences between girls and boys become apparent. Does this not create a problem or inconvenience in between? How do children learn to study together without any gender bias?

I have seen a lot of these problems. That’s why sexual health education is being established for sixth grade and above. They have classes and workshops for it. Previously, there were no such education for sixth grade and below, and recently they have started to hold some workshops. In issues related to younger ages in this field, there is a weak educational approach.

I have seen several cases myself. For example, children have joked with each other, and I have reported that incident and suggested that we hold a workshop, which has been held and they are doing it, and this matter is very important to them. Parents also want to tell them that such an incident has happened.

But in general, there is something here that was strange for me. People here are very comfortable with clothing. For me as an Iranian, it was very strange to see parents of students, for example, come with this type of clothing and appear in a public place like a school or street. I want to say that this issue of clothing is normal for them. I mean, very revealing clothing is very normal for them, both for adults and children. For example, a few days ago there were African children and we had a celebration at school. The host was an eighth grade student, with a party outfit and the shortest dress possible, open and with high heels. When I was in Iran and supposed to be the host of a program, my hijab had to be complete. Otherwise, the school supervisor would constantly give me warnings. When this lady host came on stage with this outfit, everyone applauded for her. I want to say that the issue of clothing in this country is a solved

Of course, since this is a private school, they try to find a solution for even the smallest problem. For example, when I entered the class and saw two of the kids kissing, I reported it and it was decided that something needed to be done (considering the young age of the children). From then on, classes and workshops were held regarding sexual education.

Is education also provided to children about the LGBTQ+ community or rainbow society?

This issue is not taboo for them. Homosexuality is not a crime in this country. LGBT individuals in Botswana have their own society. In Iran, this is a crime and it is not possible to talk about it. But here it is not a crime and it is free. Of course, they do not have the right to marry. Botswana is a small country with a small LGBT community.

I want to know if this issue is taught and familiarized to students in schools.

In a serious manner, but I know that in workshops about sexual health, these issues are discussed. But not with children under ten years old.

You talked about praying for children at the beginning of ceremonies. How religious is the society in Botswana?

It is very religious. Seventy percent of the people in Botswana are Catholic Christians. Our school is international and has representation from all religions. They did not teach us how to pray in school. When I entered this school in Botswana, they said they were new and they should say today’s prayer. I didn’t know what to say. I just read a few lines of poetry from Saadi to move on. I really didn’t know what to say. But the people are very religious.

How does the religiousness of people manifest in schools and how is it managed? Is there religious education in schools?

It is a good question. I have corrected their religious papers for two semesters myself. The questions were very interesting for me. Questions are asked about all religions. In Iran, for example, in the religion and life class, very little is said about the Abrahamic religions and then everything is about Islam. It’s not like that here. Here, even though the majority are Christians, the issues and teachings of Christianity are discussed in church. The school is different. In school, they say that we have all the religions in the world. And they explain them. For example, they say that there are Muslims, Baha’is, Christians, followers of Confucius, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, and other religions. In our city, there are seven Hindu temples that include Sikhs, Hindus, and Buddhists. There are also two Chinese temples. They also talk about African religions. They teach all of these. They also go into more detail about them step

Is this religious teaching merely descriptive and aimed at impartial education of religions, or does it have a prescriptive view in favor of a particular religion as well?

It is completely impartial. We have two religious teachers in our school who are both priests. But based on the questions I have seen on the exam papers and also considering the fact that I read the children’s textbooks, including their religious lessons, in order to be able to answer their questions, I can say that there is no bias towards any specific religion in this education. The exam questions are also very detailed and involve descriptive discussions of religions.

How do families approach religious education? Considering that the student’s parents have a specific affiliation with a religion.

Families have no problem with this issue at all. But if they do have a problem, as I mentioned, since this class is optional, they would say that they don’t want their child to be in this class. But regarding the people of Botswana, I can say that it’s easy to have a religious discussion with them. They also have a lot of respect, but they go their own way. It’s not like they would say, now that you’re talking to me about this religion, you want to convert me. No, they don’t have that mindset at all.

Is it possible to advertise in school?

Yes. It is completely possible.

Well, does this possibility of advertising in schools not create conflict among students?

Good. In our school, we have a traditional Botswana-style house made of straw and similar materials. There is someone there who has a lot of religious knowledge and is not a priest or anything like that. In general, there are symbols of different religions in this room. From the cross to the name of God, as well as Hindu gods and others. There are also sacred books of different religions here. If anyone wants to have a religious discussion, students, parents, and others can go there and have a discussion.

I have not seen or heard anything about religious conflicts here. People here are welcoming of different religions. In our city, there are three mosques belonging to Indian Muslims. We also have a Hindu teacher who is Muslim. We have a Muslim teacher who wears a hijab. We also have Muslim students.

The government here allows for the promotion of any religion. There is absolutely no such thing as religious warfare in this country.

Is this method of encountering different religions in public schools the same?

Yes, it is the same in government schools as well. One interesting point is that, for example, you have entered this country and have obtained a three or ten-year work permit. When you want to go and get a passport – this is something I have heard many times – one of the activities that is important to them is how much your religion and beliefs have been beneficial to society. For example, how much have you helped the poor here or taught the poor here. How much useful activity have you done for the well-being of society here. This is important and influential and is a positive point.

What is the role of teachers in Botswana society?

It’s very good. Not only does it have a good salary, but people’s perception of a teacher is that of a highly educated person. This person has gone and studied hard and become a teacher. People truly respect teachers. It’s an honor to say that you are a teacher. I studied law and my family wanted me to become a lawyer. But I changed my path. However, some acquaintances would say that if I tried harder, I would be more successful. It’s like they’re saying that being a teacher is a lower position and if I hadn’t become a teacher, what would I have become? But I feel good about being a teacher and it gives me a sense of credibility. For example, in Iran, when they want to address someone, they say Dr. or Engineer so-and-so. Here, being a teacher is at the same level. For example, when someone wants to introduce me to their friend, they use the title of teacher before my name.

How about financially and in terms of salary and benefits?

Public schools have much higher salaries compared to private schools. Teachers also receive salaries based on their experience, qualifications, and what they teach. However, teachers receive higher salaries than the average society and have good salaries.

Thank you for the time you have given to the peace process.