Azar Tashakor is a sociologist and an active activist researcher who is concerned with social changes. She has carried out various research and facilitation projects throughout Iran, mostly in the areas of cities and women. In addition to observing, writing, and presenting sociological analyses, Azar Tashakor is also a life coach. She explains that coaching is a type of partnership or companionship for individuals, groups, and organizations to achieve their goals. She adds that with the expansion of social networks, more than ever before in history, information is readily available to everyone and the role of advising and counseling in communities has become scarce and ineffective. She believes that due to easy access to resources, people sometimes get lost among the data and information. In this regard, the role of a coach is to extract the most relevant knowledge from the heart of the clients and define a cycle of awareness and actions in a short period of time to bring about change.

Accompanying a coach with individuals, groups, and organizations is very effective due to the coach’s various skills. In fact, in this companionship, people’s power comes from within themselves and the path and goal become accessible. This researcher says, “Based on my background and understanding of society, it seems to me that coaching is a very important tool to help people let go of the destructive turmoil, confusion, and disorientation that they have fallen into, and to be able to provide more effective help. In addition, the fundamental values of coaching provide many lessons for proper, meaningful, and purposeful communication to create deep changes.” He says, “Coaching is a new term in Iranian society and even educated groups may be less aware of it, or there may be market interpretations of it in society. But this science is growing in the world. Like all powerful and attractive things, owners of large companies have used coaching first. But it is gradually expanding. In Iran, professions or

We have talked with Azar about the women’s movement in Iran, before and after the protests of 1401 and its effects, and the events that followed. In this conversation, we have tried to approach the society of Iran from new perspectives, which have previously been neglected or ignored. First, to familiarize ourselves with this sociologist’s view on the women’s movement in Iran, we asked her:

As a sociologist, this…

How do you evaluate the movement?

He replied, “When you talk about movements, it has a political meaning in our society. It refers to what is visible and traceable in politics, mostly in an official manner. In recent years, whether willingly or unwillingly, all collective movements have been forced to be political in all areas. Due to the obstacles, both subtle and obvious, created and imposed by the political system, even labor and small social movements have become political. Therefore, in our social and intellectual space, every movement automatically becomes a political issue, even though it could go beyond politics as we know it.”

This sociologist, while defining the movement, spoke about the activities and expansion of the women’s movement before and after 1401: “Any type of social movement that aims to change the values and behaviors of society is defined under the concept of movement. Movements can slowly move forward, like water, and color their surroundings and wet their surroundings, as far as they have the strength. But what we have experienced in recent decades has different characteristics. For example, the women’s movement in the past decades was referred to as the activities of individuals with a specific idea, namely achieving gender justice. What the methods, strategies, and interpretations were, is not currently our topic of discussion. We want to address the overall movement and its changes, the overall movement that is interpreted as the women’s movement or feminists, meaning those who tried to confront society with women’s desires. Before 1401, this movement had specific activists, they wrote, held meetings, launched strikes, protests, or demonstrations,

This researcher talked about the position of the women’s movement in Iran today, saying: “But what has happened since 1401 is a very important event that is completely different from all previous movements. These events have suddenly changed all the analyses of social and political movements. I will try to explain its characteristics to show why I say it is different. First, the movement has greatly expanded through a process. It is a kind of expansion that even the first generation of the women’s movement did not dream of. It has become so widespread and encompassed all groups that it was unpredictable for anyone before. Neither for the political system nor for those who stood against it.”

We can interpret this process as a coincidence and we can also say that it was not a coincidence. This means that it did not start from a zero point. I referred to the word “process”, as if an event had happened that was self-sufficient. It’s as if something had been suppressed and suddenly overflowed. There was a hidden force under the skin of society that we thought was over, or we had already finished it and succeeded in dispersing it. The idea was that this movement no longer had energy or momentum and could not be active, but suddenly it emerged from somewhere that even those who had the call for leadership of the movement did not expect. Everyone was amazed. On the other hand, it included all groups. It did not remain within itself, it did not only remain for women, but it was able to bring men with it as well.

This sociologist, about the impact of the women’s movement on other parts of society, stated: “The women’s movement not only encompassed all other spheres, but also went beyond its own demands. For example, if in the past, their demand was for a change in the legal structure to give women more rights, they had to work on two fronts; both with the “political system” and with “men”. Attacking the patriarchal laws that secured their interests.‌

Kurd, could have washed men against women and caused them to oppose any kind of change, such as inheritance law or ownership, etc. But the 1401 movement disrupted this structure, and men, alongside women, participated in actions. This event was a remarkable step in terms of scope and maximum attraction. If a woman showed solidarity with the process of this movement, men from different classes, including family and neighborhood, stood by her. Now men not only did not harass unveiled women, but with silence, they accompanied them with more support and respect. This has been experienced and reported by many women. The role of men in normalizing the issue of removing the hijab should not be ignored from 1401 until now, especially when there have been many attempts to define the hijab as a means of protection and security for women against men.

This event was strange both in terms of its scope and in terms of understanding, perception, and social behavior. Now men were standing alongside the women’s movement. The progress was such that men did not accept interpretations of modesty through the preservation of hijab, street violence against women, defining the limitations of hijab, and pressuring women. Their argument was that it has no benefit for us and it is not in our honor. Even many traditional men used traditional concepts like “honor” to oppose the pressure on women, with statements like: “Why are you behaving like this with the honor of this country?” or “We fought in the war so that this honor would not be violated. Now it is under attack in the streets.” I want to say that every group and every inclination used their own concepts to help the movement. They were helping without having any plans to do so.

This researcher, by referring to the effects of movements on different levels of society, especially the changes that have occurred in the areas of language, security, and immunity, says: “This widespread phenomenon, which had not been experienced before in the issue of women, had deep effects. First, it deeply affected the levels of activism in society. It penetrated into the deepest layers of social beliefs. When it happened to Mahsa Amini, the issue of her strangeness caught the attention of society. The isolation of this girl and her brother in Tehran occupied the minds of society. The reality is that when any person from a small town enters Tehran, they do not understand the language and communication space of the central residents, and Tehran’s atmosphere is strange and overwhelming for them. This great city, with its vastness and complexity, which has concentrated a significant part of the national resources within itself, oppresses everyone! Everything about it, from its signs, behaviors, processes, and daily movements and rhythms

We thanked Azar.

You say that the reason for the start of the protests in 1401 was the mistreatment of Mahsa Amini, which led to the people’s reaction?

They replied: “Yes! According to one interpretation, they clash with the deep social values and beliefs of the people. Even with those who are caught up in their daily lives and are not seemingly political individuals.”

This sociologist, with reference to the profound impact of the concept of “life” in the slogan “woman, the freedom of life”, believes that this slogan is a translation of a new social idea that has the potential for globalization: “In what has been interpreted as the slogan of this movement, the concept of “life” is very strong. We generally understand the concept of “woman” and each of us has a relative understanding of “freedom”. But the concept of “life” in this slogan is very strange. I have previously said in interviews that in my opinion, the slogan “woman, the freedom of life” has the potential for global expansion. For the first time, the Iranian society could have and had the possibility to contribute to the idea and social experience. We have often been translators of new thoughts. Two decades ago, the women’s movement was accused of being a Western movement. The leaders of the movement also tried to pay attention to global women’s struggles and adopt

We asked:

How can we evaluate the changes that have occurred after the movement? How deep were these changes, how long-lasting were they, and how much can we ignore and not pay attention to them? How do you assess the attention given to these changes from the perspective of the people and the government?

This researcher, in response to this question, said: “In my opinion, there has been a lot of talk about the people, let me talk about the government. The government did not expect such widespread protests, but with the resources at its disposal, it was able to gather energy and power and deal with the protests in various ways. It controlled many people with the issuance of various judicial orders and, as we saw, silenced many protesters and tried to deny that anything important had happened.” He continued, pointing out the undeniable impact of this movement: “As a sociologist, I can say that these events and impacts are undeniable. They are also undeniable for the political system itself. That is why the country’s political system changed its “phase” during the movement, entering the “survival phase”. In other words, it adapted itself exactly to the new social space. Until then, the political system had two main duties for itself: redefining and protecting social-cultural values, and

This researcher continues by pointing out the responsibilities of a sociologist: “Sometimes the oppressive aspect of political-economic-cultural systems is hidden and opaque, which is why sociologists focus part of their work on explaining the mechanisms of these oppressive systems. They aim to make people aware of how oppression is covertly implemented and how it limits their freedom of thought and social and intellectual advancement. In fact, sociologists make people aware of the methods of oppression by providing analyses of the behavior of governments. However, there are times when the systems reach stages where everything becomes exposed. This exposure divides all social and political relationships into before and after, and greatly affects the relationship between the political system and the people. The use of force and violence becomes more apparent, and in some cases, this force is even glorified. One of the main arguments used to justify the issue of hijab was that it is the law and must be obeyed. When they said it was the law, they emphasized the use of force.

Our conversation with Azar Tashakkor about the effects of the movement and changes it has caused in society continued, and we asked them:

How have we reached structural changes?

The response of this researcher is noteworthy. He said, “We understand structural changes very narrowly. For example, we think change means strange changes must happen. For example, suddenly, a city turns upside down or the media apparatus of a political system turns upside down, becomes revolutionary, and from the day of the revolution, suddenly an earthquake comes and administrative structures or urban welfare infrastructures collapse.”

We do not understand any structural changes in the mental world of humans, and we do not focus on them. We do not even recognize its signs. We have not studied it because, firstly, this change happens very slowly, and secondly, the change in mental structure is not reported and does not appear in writings. Therefore, we cannot understand it. For example, when we talk about the constitution, we imagine an institution that was created in the parliament and the media, or the institution of monarchy became like this and that. What I mean is that our understanding of fundamental changes is mostly limited to changes at the institutional level, and we do not understand fundamental changes in the minds and lives of humans because we do not have many signs of it. Let’s skip the reasons, but I only mention that in 1401, with the slogan “Women’s Life of Freedom,” it is a sign of a deeply profound structural change in the mind and mental structure of the Iranian people.

This researcher, by referring to the government’s inability to accept changes in the societal mindset, believes that none of the decision-makers have a desire to understand these changes, and even if they do, they lack the courage to act upon them. He continues, “The government either sees itself against this change in the societal mindset and continues to deny it, or accepts it. In the government, there are very few who honestly say that they have changed, or if there are, they are very few. Almost no one is willing to say that I have the courage to say that I have reached a different conclusion. The reality is that those who have a role in the political system do not report their own changes or make their changes public. Naturally, those who are part of the structure do not find the courage because their interests are at stake. Some of these individuals only admit that: Yes! Society has changed and we must see these changes.”

In the recent elections, Mr. Masoud Pezeshkian said that we must see these changes, in fact, he acknowledged the existence of these changes. But experience has shown that none of them, themselves, do not have the courage to make these changes and do not have the courage to change the values and mental structures in the process of change, as much as the people in society. The courage that its signs were shown in the behavior of the people in 1401: “The scarves were set on fire.” This courage is a sign of something that has happened and is happening. Someone who is part of the political system, even if they accept these changes, does not have the courage to act. For example, they may constantly say, “Let’s listen to the words of the youth and use the abilities of the young people,” but in practice, they suppress the youth and in forming a government, they use the same familiar old people and the result is that even

We thanked Azar and asked her to tell us more about the type of changes that occurred in Iranian society after the movement. She said, “Allow me to talk about the depth of changes in the minds of society. These changes are deeply rooted because they involve the human “body.” When the subject of activism and ideas is related to the body, it cannot be superficial. The issue of hijab and clothing is deeply “mental” and “physical.” You have to be a woman to understand what I’m saying. To understand how it feels when your skirt is a little too short in a certain situation, or when your headscarf falls back a little, what happens in your mind, or if it doesn’t happen, how insecure and uncomfortable you feel.”

The topic of hijab is not just about covering oneself. When you put on or take off the hijab, you can understand how this action is related to both the body and the mind. Therefore, in a movement that focuses on the issue of clothing, hijab, and values related to women’s bodies and minds, these changes are not just superficial changes, but rather existential changes. It is actually a transition from one existential phase to another that will never go back. That is why I say that in society, an existential change has taken place. Here, it is not just about women’s rights. I often look at the body language of young girls, teenagers, and women of different ages in the streets and alleys. In my analytical and research-based logic, observation plays an important role. What I have discussed about the women’s movement since 1401 (Persian calendar) is the result of personal and precise observation of the body language of women of different ages in various public

The perspective of this sociologist on one of the achievements of the women’s movement is very noteworthy: “I must also add another point about the breadth of the movement. After the 1401 movement, we are faced with the phenomenon of “the prison movement” as a relatively new phenomenon. In the belief of the judicial system, imprisonment is a form of punishment for activism, but strikes and collective resistance, statements and reactions to events outside of prison, etc. show that the position of prison has turned from the bottom of the story to the top. In other words, fundamental changes have been made in the function of prison punishment. The political system thought that by imprisoning people as a punishment, it would silence them and that would be the end of it! In reality, the belief of the rulers was that by imprisoning protesters, they would punish them and silence their voices, but now they see that this prison has become a problem in itself. In the current situation, the gathering of

We asked this researcher to share their predictions about the future of governance, taking into account the dynamism and liveliness of the movement. In response, they said, “The results that arise in different social situations are the product of forces. This means that the forces that influence each other and the superiority of power among them. For this reason, it is often unpredictable, but in my opinion, as someone who follows deep changes, the social space is very hopeful. According to many, migration, displacement, depression, and widespread anxieties that have a high impact on people’s personal lives are derived from the effects of social movements. We are not aware of the extent of these damages. From the orders that are issued and tolerated in silence, especially from the psychological damages that have no external appearance. General and vague statistics of these damages are available, for example, it is announced that there has been a significant increase in visits to psychiatrists or therapists, and we also see signs on social networks of

As the last question, we asked:

Has the government understood and accepted these changes? Or is it expected to resist?

The response of this sociologist was as follows: “The knowledge and insight of today, about predicting the behavior of governments, tells us: the motivation of governments is different and the reasons are also diverse. In any case, governments either have a specific ideology or they believe they have interests or a mission in the world. Sometimes I think it is impossible to explain whether it is interests or something else. Perhaps we can say that there are both interests and fear. Fear of change or delusion. Sometimes all of these come together to prevent a change that is naturally occurring. Unaware that the essence of life is in accepting change and when you are not aware of it, it will eventually sweep you away. Everyone, even in their personal lives, experiences this. Changes also happen in families, which cannot be stopped. The only way is to accept these changes. But the facilities, tools, logistics, and money give people the illusion of being great!”