Saeed Madani Ghahfarokhi is a senior researcher in social issues and a journalist, with numerous valuable publications, particularly in the areas of social problems such as addiction, poverty, and prostitution. His books, “Sociology of Prostitution”, “Addiction in Iran”, “The Necessity of Fighting Poverty and Inequality in Iran”, “Violence Against Children in Iran”, and “Social Movements (Emergence, Ups and Downs)” are just a small part of the works of this Iranian sociologist.

This sociologist, in a conversation about the nationwide protests in December, says: “The scope of demands in Iran has expanded and covers all political, economic, and social dimensions. The consolidation of these demands has led to a crisis of legitimacy, resulting in the chanting of radical slogans by protesters.” Mr. Madani adds: “The fault lines of Iranian society became active in the mid-1990s and the reform movement tried to put them on the path of civility and democracy. Unfortunately, due to the theoretical and practical weakness of the reformists and the reduction of the reform movement to a reformist faction within the political system, which had essentially forgotten civil society and the public sphere, and of course the resistance of supporters of the existing situation, that project failed and reached a dead end towards the end of the reformist government.”

In the past month, we witnessed the most widespread protests in the four decades of the Islamic Republic’s existence. In your opinion, what caused these protests to quickly spread and reach cities and remote areas of the country?

First, let me explain that based on the evidence and reports available, my inference is that although the events of December took place on a very wide geographical scale and developed, it may not be considered as the largest protest after the revolution in terms of the number of participating population. Therefore, one of the exceptional features of these protests was the geographical spread in nearly 90 small and large cities. I have repeatedly said that Iranian society is in a state of movement. This means that every social, political or economic issue has the potential to turn into a crisis, leading to protests by all or part of the society, and these successive crises end in riots and protests. As long as the system does not undergo structural reforms in all political, economic and social dimensions and becomes relatively efficient, healthy, fair and democratic, it will not be able to control this process.

Mr. Madani, what type of demands were the result of these protests?

The scope of demands in Iran has expanded and covers all political, economic, and social dimensions. The consolidation of these demands has led to a crisis of legitimacy, resulting in the chanting of radical slogans by protesters. However, based on evidence and circumstances during the protests in December, dissatisfaction with the economic situation, especially poverty and inequality, was of great importance. Considering the risks and dangers of participating in these protests, many of those involved had nothing to lose. The age composition of the protesters shows that most of them were between 15 and 30 years old, indicating that the youth movement was active in these protests. The youth movement mainly revolves around demands in the economic and employment sectors, as well as lifestyle.

In your opinion, do you think these protests can be considered over or should we just say that the Iranian government has managed to control them?

In a revolutionary society, every uprising and protest is like an earthquake. This means that even though earthquakes may not occur frequently, their effects can last for years and impact society. The protests in December were suppressed and controlled within one to two weeks, but their effects on political authority and critical and opposing forces, especially reformists, had and will continue to have undeniable consequences. Undoubtedly, we will witness even more widespread protests after this, as the causes and factors behind these protests are still present. But will the next protests be linked to or a continuation of the December protests? Although the demands of December will undoubtedly be echoed in future protests and the December protests will have an impact on the quantity and quality of future protests, it cannot be definitively stated that there is a direct link between the December protests and future ones. In other words, there are multiple factors at play in whether the December protests will lead to a social movement or even a revolution. Therefore, it is impossible to make a certain

Recently, the ISPA Institute conducted a survey regarding the nationwide protests in December, estimating that nearly 75% of the population is dissatisfied. These results, which showed that the fractures in Iranian society have not healed, were the subject of a meeting at the Center for Strategic Studies of the Presidency, with the presence of the President’s advisor, and concerns were expressed about them. In your opinion, how will the social, political, and economic fractures in Iran erupt again?

Iranian society’s fault lines became active in the mid-1990s and the reform movement attempted to steer them towards a civil and democratic path. Unfortunately, due to the theoretical and practical weakness of the reformists and the reduction of the reform movement to a moderate faction within the political system that had essentially forgotten about civil society and the public sphere, and of course the resistance of supporters of the existing regime, that project failed and reached a dead end towards the end of the reformist government. After that, in a higher orbit and with the support of the social movement of civil society, the Green Movement emerged, which is still ongoing. What I mean is that two decades have passed since the fault lines of Iranian society became active, and alongside that, inefficiency, structural corruption, discrimination and inequality, and a closed political space, all hindered the establishment of a serious and decisive response to the crises resulting from the activation of these fault lines. The events of December showed that this dissatisfaction resulting

In general, the Iranian civil society was absent during the nationwide protests in December. The civil society did not pay much attention to the media coverage of these protests or the reporting on the casualties (especially in comparison to the closest similar example in terms of timing, which is the protests of 2009); let alone organizing its forces to participate in the protests. If you agree with this issue, how do you assess the reason?

In any case, protesters are a part of civil society that has not been recognized. But if you mean that a significant portion of civil society forces and organizations did not join the December protesters, I agree with you. It seems that Iranian civil society has gained a rationality, based on a wide spectrum of conservative to radical opinions, which has led to a gradual, non-violent movement towards almost a consensus for change. Now, the majority of critics of the current situation agree with the statement that “violence leads to the reproduction of violence” and for this reason, although they are advocates of collective action and protest, they are familiar with the sensitivities of the era and are not willing to participate in the country’s involvement in a path of conflict, violence, and endless disputes. Some reformist friends warn of the constant danger of Syriaization while they themselves know that for various reasons, including the relative growth and maturity of civil society and the combination of political and social forces, Iran is unlikely

Are nomads also part of civil society in Iran? But in general, how do you think civil society can be expanded in nomadic communities?

Let me explain a little about the concept of civil society so that I can answer your question. From a sociological perspective, society is the most complete social structure and includes independent groups of humans who have organized themselves cooperatively and occupied a specific territory. According to Karl Marx, society is made up of relationships between people and social groups. Durkheim believes that society is an environment in which humans cooperate and engage in mutual actions, but society is more than just the sum of its parts and controls human behavior. For Max Weber, society is a collection of individuals, and social actions are the building blocks of societies, which change based on the type of actions individuals take. Therefore, society is created through the gathering of individuals and groups and the establishment of social relationships. However, “civil society” is an ideal type of social structure that is based on laws and is bridged by civil institutions between the two layers of government and the people, so that power and freedom are not unlimited and destructive changes

Despite these explanations, there are many ambiguities about the definition of civil society. But what is relevant to your question is that the marginalized are also part of civil society and, of course, often the weakest voice in civil society, which is only heard in moments of protest and rebellion by others.

Thank you for the time you have given us.