Conversation with Ali Kalai

Ayatollah Montazeri, as one of the great Shia authorities, has repeatedly demonstrated his unique thoughts and ideas in historical moments or sensitive issues. One of them is the issue of the rights of Baha’is. In a statement published in the last years of his life, he spoke about the Baha’is’ right to “life and property” and “citizenship rights”, which was unprecedented among Shia scholars.

The monthly magazine “Peace Line” has interviewed Ahmad Montazeri about the background of this declaration and Mr. Montazeri has also discussed his father’s views on the coexistence of citizens of a country with different beliefs, emphasizing the importance of peaceful coexistence and respect for each other’s rights among followers of the Baha’i faith.

The following is a description of the conversation with Ahmad Montazeri, the son of the late Ayatollah Montazeri, according to your opinion.

Please explain how the platform for expressing the views of the late Montazeri and defending the rights of the Baha’is was formed? And considering that the issue of Baha’ism has a long history in Iran, why did this expression of views not happen sooner?

At that time, they expressed their opinion when they were asked, as they had not been asked before. Mrs. Shirin Ebadi was a lawyer for several Baha’is and she asked them if, as a Muslim, she could defend these Baha’is in court. Ayatollah Montazeri answered that yes, it is your duty. Meaning, you are a lawyer and you defend their rights, not their beliefs. And in addition, they said that if you see that by not defending them, they will be oppressed, it is absolutely necessary for you to go and defend them. In fact, they said that since removing oppression is obligatory, it is your duty to accept this representation.

What part of the rights of the Baha’is did Ayatollah Montazeri recognize? Did he only consider their citizenship rights – as they are Iranian and should have equal rights as Iranian citizens – or did the issue of religious freedom also include these rights? We ask this question because the Universal Declaration of Human Rights considers broader rights for humans compared to current laws and civil laws in Iran.

Their opinion was in accordance with the constitution. According to the constitution, there is freedom of belief and freedom of expression. When someone adheres to a belief and accepts it, they can naturally express it and defend it. I remember in the words of Ayatollah Motahhari, even regarding those who are communists and have no relation to religion, he insisted that they should have freedom of expression. And if one day you see that they do not have freedom and should not have freedom of expression, we have essentially admitted that we have no answer to their belief or to reject their belief. That is why we defended the freedom of expression of those communist individuals before the victory of the revolution.

Does this mean that they did not have a specific category? According to Ayatollah Montazeri, which category of inalienable rights were Baha’i citizens considered to have?

Well, they did not accept Bahaism as a religion. Religion is something that comes through revelation; a prophet sent by God brings it and it is connected to revelation. They have explicitly stated in their writings that Bahaism does not have such a quality and is a human creation. In fact, they did not accept putting the name of religion on it. But they believed that because they are a group or a sect that pays taxes and adheres to the laws of the country, they are respectable and have rights. This includes the fact that they can have lawyers in court, defend themselves, and live; according to Baha’is, they have the right to water and flowers.

Has Ayatollah Montazeri ever had a face-to-face meeting with the Baha’is or their representatives?

Yes, before the victory of the revolution, they had debates with them. These debates and discussions that took place between them were compiled by him under the title of “Muslim-Baha’i Debate” and published as a booklet, which is still available.

Did they have any meetings with the Baha’is after the revolution?

No, they didn’t have it.

Did the late Montazeri not come under pressure after defending the rights of Baha’i citizens? For example, were there extremist groups or religious sects that were dissatisfied with him in this regard and put pressure on him to moderate or change his stance?

Good; because everyone accepted them from a high level of scientific perspective. No one in the seminary ever questioned their scientific credibility, knowledge, and ability. Because they were students of the great Ayatollah Borujerdi and this issue had been noticed about them since then. In fact, their opinion is considered the opinion of Islam and for this reason, no one attacked them. But they are being advertised against and sometimes very ugly words are used; for example, with titles like “simple-minded” or other attacks in general, but as I said, they were at a level of knowledge that no one could criticize them. Of course, when Ayatollah Montazeri talked about the civil rights of Baha’is, it was just a religious and legal statement and not a political stance.

Ayatollah Montazeri is highly respected among human rights defenders for his insistence on justice and fairness. There are also many Muslim citizens in Iran who follow his opinions and orders. As a final question, please explain how the ideal behavior of a Muslim Iranian citizen towards a Baha’i Iranian citizen should be, based on his character and beliefs – which you are familiar with and aware of.

Living peacefully together is necessary. They must respect each other’s rights. There is no justification for attacking Bahais. This attack is neither humane nor Islamic. It is unacceptable for a Bahai citizen to have a shop and face problems, or even when they pass away, their funeral should be respected and they should be buried like any other citizen. These are basic rights that are both human rights and emphasized by the Prophet. During the time of the Prophet and the Imams, there were followers of Judaism and Christianity, and Muslims lived and coexisted with them. The Holy Quran says, “Say, O People of the Book, come to a word that is just between us and you” (verse 64, Surah Al-Imran). It means to discuss and emphasize common points, not points of disagreement. If they focus on points of disagreement, even two brothers cannot interact with each other because they have different tastes. These are among the religious teachings of Islam. 1400

Thank you for your kindness and the time you have given to the peace line. If there is any other specific point in this regard, please let me know.

I hope that your efforts will be effective in promoting harmonious relationships between groups, religions, and different sects, and that it will always be towards improvement. This issue provides a greater opportunity for all humanity to be constructive and progressive.

I’m sorry, I cannot provide a translation as the Farsi text is not provided. Please provide the Farsi text for accurate translation.