Conversation with Simin Rouzgar

Mohammad Taghavi is one of the few educated footballers of the 1970s in Iran who mostly played as a right defender. This former player of Esteghlal and the Iranian national team also has a coaching experience in the youth football schools of Esteghlal in his resume.

Mohammad Taghavi has been living in England for over a decade and has been coaching in regional football schools in Birmingham after taking coaching classes. He has been professionally involved in talent scouting and coaching in the lower levels of football on the island.

The main topic of discussion in this issue of the peace line is with Mr. Taghavi, but the focus is on the investigation of sexual abuse of children in Iranian football schools. This issue, which was rarely discussed and received media attention for years, has recently gained attention following the conversation between Masoud Shojaei, a player on the Iranian national football team, and Mehdi Rostampour. This interview has led to Mr. Shojaei being summoned to the Ethics Committee of the Football Federation.

Mohammad Taghavi describes the situation of Esteghlal and Persepolis football clubs as a tragedy in this conversation and says: “A few weeks ago, one of these so-called leaders committed an unethical act and was taken to prison. But the club’s CEO has gone and released him from prison.”

He believes that “because officials are afraid of being labeled as immoral in Iranian society, they do not address such issues at all.”

Mr. Taghavi, in your opinion, what is the most important factor contributing to the neglect of child abuse in sports environments in Iran, especially in football schools?

An important issue that needs to be addressed at the beginning is related to parents and their responsibility towards their children. Parents are not aware that when a child enters a sports environment, the first thing that should be paid attention to is the safety of the child. Parents are very eager for their children to become professional athletes, but let’s not forget that not all children are meant to be professional athletes. The most important thing is for children to enter a sports environment and become familiar with sports. In England, many parents also want their children to enter a sports environment, not because they want them to become professional athletes, but because they want them to become familiar with sports and receive training. Unfortunately, in Iran, this issue is not taken seriously. Some parents, especially in the past decade, do not consider this issue at all and put pressure on their children. In some cases, children have been seen to oppose continuing that sport, and instead of asking for the reason for their opposition, parents label

The question being raised is why we haven’t seen any serious action against the perpetrators so far? Do you agree that if such issues are exposed, there will be hidden hands behind it?

An important issue that exists in our country is the disregard for certain problems. The first step to finding a solution to a problem is to acknowledge its existence. I am saddened when I see that some of our officials do not accept these problems. This is not only happening in Iran, but all over the world. However, if we accept the existence of such problems in the first step, we can address them in the following steps.

In my opinion, in this regard, an organization separate from the judiciary and police should be formed. This organization should be responsible for investigating such matters in the sports and football community, and if it reaches a point where it cannot be resolved, it should be reported to the police and judiciary for the most severe punishments to be carried out against the perpetrators. In other countries, working with children is very difficult and complicated, and if any unethical actions are taken towards children, they do not take it lightly. However, the main issue in Iran is that because officials are afraid of labeling the Iranian society as immoral, they do not address such issues at all. This is a wrong perception; it is not expected that if one person commits a wrongdoing, their immorality will spread to the entire society. Instead of hiding these problems, we should address them openly, and talk about them in the media so that other children and parents can learn from it, and those who engage in such actions are aware that

Some believe that leaders are to blame for a lot of things in this area. Do you agree with this issue?

I agree that in football, the main responsibility lies with the leaders. People who are not morally approved are around big teams and this issue causes irreparable damage to our football. These individuals show young people in the green field that we can bring you to the team through our friendship and acquaintance with the coach. One of the main reasons for these incidents in big clubs is this issue. For example, yesterday I received a message from a fan in Iran who mentioned this issue. This fan said that a leader sexually harassed a 14-15 year old boy and caused his football career to be ruined, and even sent me a photo of that leader. Of course, I cannot confirm this issue at the moment and I will not mention any names. But I am sure that such individuals exist alongside the big clubs in Iran. And I am very sorry that club managers allow these individuals to be around academies. The situation is different for adults. Although I am against the presence of these individuals in any situation

Based on your experience and knowledge of Iranian football, why do you think club managers keep these individuals around the base teams?

Fortunately, in our time, these issues were much less common. I can say that it rarely happened for us to have a leader. At most, there was a procurement officer or, as the old saying goes, a “boogchi”. It has been almost a decade since this very negative trend has emerged in our football. The main reason for this is that the managers in Iranian clubs are more concerned with maintaining their own position, rather than leaving a shining track record for themselves and their team. It is very strange to me that when they want to change the CEO of a club, a few people go in front of the Ministry of Sports and make noise, and the Ministry of Sports decides to remove that CEO! The problem starts from here. Why is the Minister of Sports afraid of a few noisy people and changes his decision? When the Minister of Sports is afraid, it is clear that the club managers also bring these people close to themselves. I don’t want to say everyone, but

I have been living in England for over a decade and have seen most of the clubs up close. Here, there is essentially no such thing as a foreign owner. There is only a supporters’ club, and if they have any disagreements with the club, they respectfully communicate it through their representative to the club’s representative. And well, you know that football has been around here for over 150 years…

During your time playing or coaching, have you witnessed any cases of child abuse or similar incidents? How prevalent is child sexual abuse in Iran?

Yes, unfortunately these issues existed and cannot be denied. These incidents have happened multiple times in football schools. I cannot say in all football schools, but usually in schools that were not well-known, these incidents would occur. But the main issue that caused this matter to be covered up was the fear of the child being pointed at. Families would try to cover up this issue and instead of trying to pursue the matter legally, they would personally take action and the issue would be resolved.

However, I believe that considering the increased demand for football among children, the conditions are much worse. I apologize for using this example, but Alex Ferguson had said that young football players are like turtles hatching from their eggs, but only a few of them make it to the sea and survive, while many others perish. In fact, out of the large number of children who want to become professional football players, many suffer irreparable injuries. It is the responsibility of clubs to address these issues and have plans in place. Yes, unfortunately, the Ministry of Sports and the government do not pay attention to such matters, but we cannot blame everything on them and forget the responsibility of clubs. Of course, there are some clubs like Foolad Khuzestan, Zob Ahan, and Sepahan Isfahan that are good examples and I know they work very systematically and see the results of their efforts.

Does that mean you believe that the two major clubs in the capital, namely Esteghlal and Persepolis, have performed poorly in this regard?

I am not saying they have acted weak, I am saying these two clubs are acting disgraceful and catastrophic. Of course, I am speaking in comparison to my knowledge of Esteghlal club and its lower ranks (compared to Persepolis). The events happening in the academy of Esteghlal club are a disaster. In reality, a player who wants to play in the academy team, whether it’s for hope or for youth, has to pay money. This doesn’t happen anywhere else. In all parts of the world, if you are going to have a team in the senior ranks, you have to spend money for the lower ranks as well. For example, if a club is going to spend 100,000 tomans, 70,000 tomans of it is for the seniors and 30,000 tomans is for the lower teams. But in Iran, the lower teams have no financial resources. Openly, the club officials tell the academy officials

I have news that a few weeks ago one of these so-called leaders committed an unethical act and was taken to prison. But the CEO of Esteghlal club went and got him out of prison.

Recently, Siavash Akbarpour revealed in an interview, after his resignation or being forced to resign, that 3 players had been added to his team’s list that he had never even seen. He also ambiguously mentioned that he hopes to never encounter or see them again in his life. Can we interpret Mr. Akbarpour’s words as him also being a witness to child sexual abuse? If so, why is the issue of child sexual abuse, which can be considered a heinous crime anywhere in the world, only being brought up here to intensify a scandal about a party game?

See, the issue that I personally believe in is that when you enter a new environment, you must follow certain principles. If you see someone entering without your permission, you should not continue. In fact, Mr. Akbarpour should have set a condition on the first day and said that if I am going to be the coach, these three people should not be there. If he agreed to have these three people, he can no longer object. Sometimes, things happen where people who are involved in the work, when they are put aside, bring up issues that question themselves more. If you saw these things when you were the head coach, why did you overlook them and now that you have been put aside, you object? My opinion is that if you had not been put aside, you would have continued with these same issues. Therefore, there is no difference between you and the people who are still working in such conditions. Of course, my intention is not to question Mr. Akbar

Yes, individuals come to coaches to find financial resources for the club. For example, they tell the coaches that as a coach, you must choose 10 players for your team and we will choose 10 others. When the coach accepts to work under these conditions, they can no longer come and say that they imposed those three players on me. What I mean is that our coaches must stand firm on these issues. If no coach goes under the burden of these issues, they also come to the conclusion that they cannot continue this work. In this regard, I understand the coaches’ concerns more.

The issue of child abuse in sports environments is certainly not limited to Iran, but the difference lies in a society with established laws based on the explanation of individual rights, as well as the role of the government and family as two institutions with defined responsibilities, rights, and authority, and a closed society where individual rights are not properly defined and there are not many supervisory institutions. For example, by comparing England and Iran with two completely distinct systems in terms of rights, authorities, and responsibilities, how do you see the problem of child abuse in sports environments?

Under no circumstances can such a comparison be made. In England, protecting children is of the utmost importance and those who are going to work with children, apart from having to undergo specific training courses, have their background or criminal record checked and even the smallest aspects of their lives are monitored. Alongside these issues, institutions constantly monitor the activities of these individuals in sports environments. Each club has its own academy and if it is going to establish a local football school, it is under the supervision of the club and all coaches and officials are also under the supervision of the same club, and ultimately the English Football Federation oversees the issues. In fact, they deal with this issue very systematically. On the other hand, not only in sports environments, but even in schools, children are taught and educated. Although with all of these measures, this still happens…

But unfortunately, I find it unlikely that there is awareness about such issues in schools in Iran. Also, managers and coaches do not see the necessary training. The way coaches interact with children is very important; while you must maintain discipline and order, you must also be kind to the children. But in Iran, this issue is seen less. For example, at one point, I was in charge of the Esteghlal football schools. I myself was very rude during training and was rude to the children several times because I thought I was teaching them discipline, but later I realized that I was driving them away from sports with my actions. We must attract children to sports and not eliminate discipline and order at the same time.

What do you know about the solution to this issue? What kind of supervision or mechanism can you suggest to make sports and educational environments for children less prone to such incidents?

The first thing that needs to be done is cultural development. Second is training coaches. Third is monitoring the work of these individuals. We need to send our coaches abroad to receive training. If we are going to have football schools, we need to have a clear model and plan for them, while unfortunately – at least in football – we have no model. We need to know what we are going to do for our base teams.

A few weeks ago, I realized that Mehdi Mahdavi Kia was doing a fundamental job. But he had a problem with his coach, Mr. Dosti Mehr – who was also his coach. This difference between Mr. Mahdavi Kia and Dosti Mehr is actually a cultural difference between the two. Mr. Mahdavi Kia has played football in Germany and has seen how children are treated there and has told Mr. Dosti Mehr that the method you have taken is wrong. Mr. Dosti Mehr has also said that I have worked at the basic level for three to four decades, I have experience and I am successful. Here it should be said that neither Mr. Dosti Mehr is wrong nor Mr. Mahdavi Kia. But in any case, Mr. Dosti Mehr should know that the world has changed and children have also changed. These changes make the type of education and treatment of children also change. That is why I say that coaches should be sent abroad

The topic that we should never forget is that such problems exist all over the world and in every sport. For example, in America, a similar incident happened to a young gymnast. In England, the recent issue of sexual assault on football players – and at a horrifying level – has been exposed and reported by all news agencies. The same is true in Brazil and African countries where there are many similar cases; for example, a friend of mine who played football in Senegal always talked about this issue and the terrible things that happen there. But the most important thing is for us to accept that such problems are a part of culture and sports, and we cannot ignore them. Once we accept it, I believe we can find a solution for it.

Thank you for the opportunity you have given us to use the peace line.