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January 28, 2025

Saeed Peyvandi: Iranian society has not learned slavery from religion / Mani Tehrani

Mani-Tehrani
Conversation with Mani Tehrani

Although we still cannot comfortably say that the world around us is an ideal place to live, if we look back, this world has become a better place every day. Humanity, which has experienced trials such as the Inquisition, Auschwitz, Stalin’s forced labor camps, and exploitation of African Americans in North America, now faces the modern issue of slavery. This new form of slavery includes sexual slaves, mostly used by mafia groups in the porn industry, child laborers who are exploited by profit-seekers for theft and abuse, and also laborers who are taken advantage of by unscrupulous individuals due to unfavorable job market conditions or their desperation to escape war and insecurity. In the past, it was the left that presented such a perspective and definition of the world, but today, numerous reports from various sources show that millions of people still live and work under difficult conditions, which are referred to as modern slavery, and hundreds of thousands of them reside in Iran. In the past, traces of

Dr. Saeed Peyvandi, a sociology professor in Paris, talks about the modern concept of slavery, its relationship with traditional slavery, the contributing and inhibiting factors, slavery in Iran, and the influence of religion and the importance of this concept in a world that is constantly witnessing or involved in war and massacre.

What is your definition of the compound term “modern slavery”? Is this term accurate or is slavery inherently a phonetic tradition?

This compound word has meaning in the contemporary world. Because the repetition and reproduction of traditional slavery seems unlikely in today’s world. Modern slavery refers to forms of economic relationships and exploitation of humans in the current world that are indifferent to the frameworks, laws, and norms of the labor market and society, and violate the rights of individuals in a widespread manner. What perhaps legitimizes the use of the term “slavery” in this context is the specific situation of those who are victims of modern slavery. Because this inhumane misuse can occur due to the victims’ unawareness of these types of work relationships, or sometimes due to coercion, poverty, and exploitation. Therefore, the use of the term modern slavery in today’s world is not exaggerated or incorrect.

What is modern slavery and who are the perpetrators or agents of it?

Conditions in which a profit-seeking group can exploit individuals in a coercive manner and outside the established frameworks of the job market and social relationships, or force them into “slavery”. Those who are under pressure and are forced, against their will or due to ignorance, to engage in illegal activities, child laborers, or immigrants who work in people’s homes, farms, and workshops without adhering to work hours, wage regulations, and social security rules, are examples of contemporary slavery. Some are forced to work due to their illegal residency, lack of knowledge of laws, young age, etc., in exchange for minimal wages or housing and food, without receiving fair wages and basic human rights. A very common example is seasonal and non-seasonal workers in agriculture or other economic centers who are secretly employed without the knowledge of official institutions and exploited for their labor. These workers do not have any of the legal benefits of today’s job market, such as set work hours, insurance, leave rights, and

What is the main factor behind the emergence of modern slavery and what is its inhibiting factor?

Sometimes in today’s supply and demand system, individuals are forced or compelled to engage in economic or social relationships that do not align with modern standards, due to pressure, lack of awareness, or special circumstances. Sufficient knowledge of the job market and its laws and regulations, or access to legal resources, is effective in reducing modern forms of slavery. There are also individuals who deliberately and for profit, manipulate social and economic norms, and exploit others by bypassing laws or even using force. At the same time, the weakness of supervisory institutions in society or the extra-legal power of influential and wealthy groups contributes to the development of such forms of exploitation. Some media outlets talk about the existence of modern forms of slavery, but supervisory institutions often lack the necessary will or power to confront this negative and inhumane phenomenon.

You mentioned cheap laborers. One of the main discussions of the Brexit referendum in Britain was about immigration, where it was said that by staying in the union, people from Eastern Europe come to Britain to work for low wages and thus take over job opportunities from British people and negatively affect wage rates. Can it be said that these convergences towards the model of the European Union in a way promote modern slavery?

It may be difficult to consider the issue of cheap labor from Eastern Europe employed in Western Europe as a form of modern slavery. The exploitation that exists regarding these workers is mostly a form of legal abuse. In France, there are also cases of the use of Eastern European employees in certain sectors.

To what extent are these misuses carried out according to French laws, or are they bypassing the law and acting against it?

“These individuals, while appearing to follow the laws, are actually circumventing them in a cunning manner. This type of compliance and interpretation of the law is a clear misuse of it. For example, one can hire a person for a job and give them the minimum legal wage. Meanwhile, the actual wage for the work they are doing is much higher. An Eastern European technician working for minimum wage actually receives half the salary of a similarly skilled French person. A portion of the immigrant workforce from weaker countries, who have a fragile economy, are exposed to these abuses. Of course, even the minimum wage for these individuals, if sent back to their own country, may have a high purchasing power, but in Western countries it is insignificant. In Britain, we also face this phenomenon of exploiting the labor market. We see even more extreme cases of this in the Iranian job market. When it comes to child labor in Iran, or Afghan immigrant workers and women, we can use the term “modern slavery”

It can be said that the foundation of traditional slavery was strong in the social conditions of humanity in the past centuries. Is modern slavery a continuation and transformation of the same traditional slavery? Or has a gap been created and, according to your explanation, does modern slavery have more economic roots rather than social ones?

As you mentioned, traditional slavery has been a strong part of society in which these types of relationships were dominant and the mindset and culture of human society at that time were in harmony with this issue. But what we see today in modern societies is different, and modern societies have changed all the frameworks of the past with legal, formal, individual rights and legal relationships related to the use of labor. Ignoring and disregarding these laws can create abnormal conditions that are unacceptable for our world. Using the term modern slavery is actually a protest against this situation. In this naming, it is hidden that this situation is unacceptable and does not mean that we are reproducing the norms of past societies. Today’s relationships and norms have changed to such an extent that fortunately, in the economic sphere, there is no sign of that world of slavery of the past. The conditions of the past were completely unacceptable with today’s experience and norms, and reproducing them after centuries cannot mean anything other than the downfall of modern societies

What is the role of religion in this matter? Considering that in religious laws, a woman can be treated as a slave (concubine) and her human rights are almost half of a man’s.

If we want to go back to the religious teachings that date back to fourteen centuries ago, there is no real barrier for the existence of slavery and serfdom in economic and social relationships, although some believe that in Islam, complete equality among humans in creation is the foundation of an anti-slavery social philosophy. Many of the great leaders of Islam had slaves and servants. Taking people as captives during wars at that time was a form of slavery. Some interpretations that were later made consider slavery as forbidden, but the fundamental texts of religion do not reject or consider it illegitimate. The influence of religion on such a phenomenon in Iran has been insignificant, especially since the arrival of Islam in Iran is not contemporary with the period that is sometimes referred to as slavery. Comparative studies between Iran and other countries show that we have not fundamentally had abnormal forms of slavery in our economic and social relationships in Iran.

According to your statement, your religion does not reject slavery, but in reality, in Iran, slavery does not have a social base for religion to support it.

I cannot imagine that Islam has ever played a central role in Iran in this particular area or in the field of economic relations, so that we can imagine if another religion had entered Iran instead of Islam, or if previous religions such as Zoroastrianism had maintained their power, the social conditions in Iran would have been different. For example, the type of economic relations and job market in Iranian cities in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was similar to that of Europe at that time, while there were different religions in these two regions. In European civilization, the church was a major supporter of feudalism, and in Iran, the religious institution had no problem with large land ownership.

This is an economic system. If we return to society, is the patriarchal system in Iran derived from religious laws and considered a form of slavery?

The patriarchal system is not only derived from Islam and has existed in many cultures. The role of general economic and social conditions in the patriarchal system in Iran is more prominent than the role of religion. If we only consider the role of Islam, we should limit patriarchy to Islamic societies; however, this is not the case.

In any case, paternal authority is derived from religious laws and this issue continues in Iran due to the existence of a religious government. Just a few weeks ago in Urmia, a father shot his daughter on the street, suspecting her of having a relationship with a boy. When passersby tried to stop him before he fired, he said, “She’s my daughter, it’s none of your business.” This is the same mentality that sees the father as the owner of his daughter and for this reason, in Iran, killing a child does not face the same consequences as other murders. Does this type of relationship not fit into the definition of slavery?

The patriarchal system is different from the system of slavery because in it, age, hierarchy, and family relations play an important role. In this system, age, gender, and social status have special symbolic or real significance and influence. In the case of the Urmia incident and similar events, one must be careful. All evidence and tangible and sociological data indicate that the patriarchal system has completely collapsed in Iran. What we see today are only remnants of this culture. What still exists today is the patriarchal system, which is completely different from the patriarchal system. The patriarchal system requires the existence of large families that rely on the role of age and gender. Today, this issue no longer exists, and the dimensions of the family have become much smaller. Today, families with more than four members in Iran are a minority, while in 1355 they were the majority. This fundamental change has taken place in Iranian society without all the elements of this way of life disappearing.

You mentioned the existence of slavery in civilizations. It has been said that without the existence of slaves, there can be no prosperity and development of a civilization. This issue has also been raised in regards to growth in capitalism. To what extent can slavery be considered relevant to communist or capitalist systems?

The concept of historical materialism is based on the idea that human societies inevitably go through various stages until they reach socialism and then communism. This means that initially they lived in a primitive communist society. Then they entered the era of slavery, which was necessary for the development of society at that time, and eventually this social necessity lost its meaning. After that, they entered the feudal era, where the intensity of inequalities decreased. Then societies entered the era of capitalism and eventually became socialist. The materialist view of history attempted to find examples of these stages in all countries, and each stage had its own historical necessity. From a Marxist perspective, for example, capitalism was necessary for the growth of capital and production, the liberation of human labor, and industrial developments in society. However, later on, capitalist relations became an obstacle to the progress of society, and from that point on, the necessity of socialism was raised. Based on the developments and experiences of the world today, especially what happened in Eastern Europe

Is the communism you mentioned referring to the same conditions of the former Soviet Union or is it different?

Many communists believe that the union of the Soviet Republics and its satellites went astray. This has led to a new form of alienation in these societies. While Marx’s theory was that capitalist societies impose a certain type of economic relations on people, in which not only are individuals exploited, but they also become alienated from themselves. The experience of former Soviet Union showed that alienation and exploitation are not limited to the capitalist system, and that economic relations are not the only and most important determinant of history. In this regard, social structure, culture, and the type of human relations are important parameters.

It is said that the union of the Soviet Republics and its satellites went astray, so which countries can we name as examples of their desired true communism? Are the six countries in the Scandinavian region close to this pattern?

Countries in the Scandinavian region have become closer to Marx’s ideal model than the former Soviet Union. However, when Marx made these statements, the 8-hour workday law, minimum wage, and social security as we know them today did not exist. In terms of technological and scientific advancements, Marx did not even see electricity. Therefore, perhaps Marx’s belief in reducing inequality and granting equal rights to all members of society and fair distribution is closer to reality in these societies than communism, which was an ideal and utopian idea that was never put into practice. If we understand the essence of communism as Marx said, “from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs,” it is very difficult for humans to create such a society, as we can see from our experience today, and this slogan has not been put into practice. However, the Scandinavian countries have been able to take a big step towards making societies more humane and reducing inequality and discrimination, and perhaps if Marx were alive,

Today, we live in the era of media. How effective is the role of media in the fight against slavery?

Today, creating a collective consciousness and conscience through media has become much easier. This fundamental transformation can be very effective in standardizing and raising public awareness for a more humane life. In this way, public opinion can be formed to support such a life and not give in to inhumane practices. Media play a crucial role in raising public awareness on one hand, and exposing hidden and semi-hidden forms of unjust relationships on the other. That is why what is known in sociology as the “desire to live like the middle class” has now become a public demand in all social classes, even those who are not economically equal to the middle class. Today, everyone with any level of knowledge can have access to media and even become a part of the media network themselves.

Thank you for the opportunity you have provided by offering the peace line.

Explanation after the publication of the peace line: In the published version of the PDF, the recipient’s name was mistakenly mentioned as someone else instead of Mr. Mani Tehrani, which has been corrected.

Created By: Admin
July 24, 2016

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Magazine number 63 Mani Tehran Saeed Peyvandi Servitude Vak Free Foundation You have a modern slave.