For decades, the issue of transferring the capital in Iran has been raised and each time this discussion ends without any clear results, it is pushed to the sidelines. Tehran, as the center of political, economic, cultural, and other activities in the country, faces numerous problems such as overpopulation, air pollution, and concentration of major government institutions. But can relocating the capital be a solution to these challenges and is a place like Makran a suitable location?

The monthly magazine of the peace line has arranged a conversation with Dr. Taghi Azadarmaki, a sociologist and professor at the Faculty of Social Sciences at the University of Tehran, to find answers to these questions. Dr. Azadarmaki, who is in charge of the Sociology Department at the Faculty of Social Sciences at the University of Tehran, responded to the questions by saying, “The relocation of the capital is a wrong and selfish project.” This member of the faculty at the University of Tehran also continued to say that this project is for those who want to make their lands prosperous and gain wealth. According to Dr. Azadarmaki, the solution to this problem is for us to turn to development projects.

You can read the explanation of the interview with Dr. Taghi Azadarmaki, sociologist, university professor, and head of the Sociology Department at the Faculty of Social Sciences at the University of Tehran, in the following.

Why is the issue of transferring the capital in Iran constantly being brought up and then pushed to the sidelines again?

Tehran is the capital of the Islamic Republic system. Any kind of incident, whether good or bad, that happens in Tehran determines the fate of the Islamic Republic. Those who manage the Islamic Republic are not capable of solving the problems of Tehran, so they choose the simplest and most backward solution, which is to transfer the capital from Tehran to somewhere else, north, south, west, or east. This may be the simplest solution, but it is not the solution to the problem.

What do you think the solution is?

The solution is the way to implement a development project in Iran. The logic of development dictates where wealth, power, culture, knowledge, and leisure should be concentrated. Since development projects are on hold in Iranian society, everyone has concentrated in Tehran to consume the resources that belong to the whole country. Oil money also has a rent-seeking aspect for government officials. When development projects take shape in Iran, oil fields also produce residential and environmental areas. Sectors that signify interaction with the outside world essentially find meaning there. For example, in such a situation, ports become significant. Then, a portion of capital and human resources is transferred there. On the other hand, the cultural sector becomes significant due to the emergence of activities such as tourism, leisure, and issues related to history and civilization. For example, cities like Hamedan, Qazvin, Zanjan, Rasht, Yazd, Kashan, Isfahan, and other cities turn into places where forces allocate resources to themselves

Is there a problem in Tehran?

The problem is the lack of development. The problem of lack is the concept of social division of labor, which brings with it economic and political division of labor. When I say development, it means that when you bring wealth from Khuzestan, you have no right to abandon it and turn it into the most polluted region. You must first fix it before bringing the money to Tehran and then dividing it. This is what leads to economic division of labor. If you do this, then you won’t go and take water from Kuhdasht to distribute it to the people of Yazd. Or give water from another place to Semnan. When this process is created, these insanities will be eliminated. If this path is taken, another story will unfold in our country. This is when the country becomes closed, chaotic, and disorganized.

The issues that are raised about Tehran revolve around the focus of political institutions and decision-making, as well as the problem of population density.

This must be. Is it possible to remove political institutions from a big city like Tehran, where all the wealth is, and take them out? Is it not foolish for the government to take itself out and take it out? Take it out, what will it do with itself? The government must be present where the incident is taking place. This is because now political institutions are following economic, security, cultural, population, and wealth institutions in Tehran. Now whoever becomes mayor in Tehran claims to be the president. Is this not strange? This shows that city management is more important than the presidency, and the mayor sees himself as the deputy president and the president in the shadow. All mayors of Tehran before or after the revolution had this situation. The fact that political institutions want to leave Tehran, all the people they take with them are a maximum of 500,000 people. Will the problem of Tehran’s population be solved by moving this number of people? It is impossible. This is one

Can’t this decentralization from Tehran lead to a reduction in social inequalities and a more fair distribution?

Yes. But on the condition of complete decentralization, not removing a part of the force that can actually solve the problems of Tehran. Imagine if political management and government leave Tehran, then who will manage this city? The population that does not move easily and does not go anywhere. But the decentralization that you are talking about is the same thing that I am saying. The second step is mine. When the development project is implemented, development in any place and any part of this land becomes a priority due to its capabilities. For example, in some places they can carve stone and have the possibility of mining. In another place, they can distribute water and in another place, they can weave carpets or produce oil. This is where distribution takes place and decentralization is created. National wealth must be consumed for each place based on what it has and can do. For example, we have four or five regions in Iran where carpet weaving exists. Not all of Iran. We must give them money to

Please tell me more about solutions for increasing the pattern of decentralization.

Decentralization has multiple solutions. I go back to my first point. We do not create wealth. We make money from the oil well and give it to the government and the ruling authority to do whatever they want with it. In this situation, decentralization is just a fantasy in this country. If it wants to have no fantasy aspect, this oil money must be taken from this government and entrusted to the discussion of generations for this country. We are now being blamed by Trump for not selling our oil. He is right that we sell our oil and make bullying. He says he won’t let us sell oil. When we don’t sell, we become poor. The dollar becomes 200,000 tomans. We have to do something else with this oil that leads to decentralization. Decentralization is not just a purely political phenomenon. Its political aspect is fantasy. As it has been so far. Decentralization is an economic, social, and cultural phenomenon. Its final step

The discussion of transferring the capital has been ongoing in Iran for years and was first brought up in 1364. From a sociological perspective, what challenges does this capital relocation create? Will it accelerate the process of urbanization without proper infrastructure in new areas such as Makran?

See, this is a joke and even the gentlemen are taking it as a joke. There was a time when Gholam was telling jokes to make people laugh. Now governments and authorities are doing it. It’s a joke and has become a fantasy. Some people in the political arena also bring it up. See, we have a population of seven, eight, ten million in Iran. Can this population be moved somewhere? Can this population be put on something? Is there a train that can take this population and where would they go? To a place in the southeast of Iran where the water and nature resources are very limited? It would take decades and a lot of money to provide the necessary infrastructure there. There is no water, air, or food for the people there. Their economy is either connected to smuggling or to the center (Tehran). The people in that region live in poverty and misery. There needs to be the possibility of creating wealth there, you need to produce wealth

How can the transfer of the capital affect the social and cultural identity of a region?

“It destroys it. It destroys the identity of the region. The only thing it does is make it like Tehran. There is no convergence. It destroys cultural areas. Let’s look at history. The important phenomenon of the history of change and movement of the capital from the Safavid era to the present, where the capital has passed through Ardabil, Tabriz, Qazvin, and Isfahan, and finally arrived in Tehran during the Qajar era. The issue is about economy and security and its relationship with the outside world. If we don’t ensure these three things, we can’t bring about change. Now see what has happened. From Ardabil and then Tabriz, they bring the cultural framework and place it in Qazvin. Then they take it all to Isfahan and then bring it to Tehran. If we now transfer the capital with this situation, we will cause the destruction of Iranian cultural areas. The cultural area in southern Iran, southwest and southeast, in

Furthermore, when we take this corrupt, bankrupt, inefficient and chaotic body from Tehran to Makran, we make it unstable. The divorce rate, corruption, immorality and violence increase there, even though it is considered one of the cleanest areas. Look at the social problems in that region, they are very low. Its population is small and they have their own way of life, so they do not have these problems.

Some believe that this transfer of capital reduces economic inequalities. What is your opinion?

I invite these individuals to read the book “The Island of Karak” by Jalal Al-Ahmad. It says that Karak, where oil is produced, its wealth has been transferred to the whole country and has not created anything for the people of this region except poverty and inequality. Look at the current situation in Ahvaz and Abadan. See if anything other than inequality and misery has been created for the southern part of the country or not. We all eat the bread of oil. Tomorrow it will be the same for there. The population living in that region has been ignored, suppressed, and has become even poorer and will be ridiculed and humiliated. I am certain that this will happen, especially since there are cultural and religious differences with those who sit in the center. They will become strangers to themselves.

In Iran, which regions have the potential to be accepted as the capital in terms of social and cultural aspects?

Nowhere. The situation in Tehran will be transferred to regions like Qazvin or Semnan or any other place. You see, relocating the capital is a wrong and selfish project, for those who want their lands to prosper and gain wealth. The solution is for us to focus on our development projects. Where we can grow wheat, where we can grow bananas, where we can mine and produce goods like shoes and baskets. Then these products can be given to the people to consume. The surplus can also be sold in the global market. With this method, the population will move to those areas. In the past, people used to go to Japan. Now, no one goes to Japan or spends money to go there. Now they go to Istanbul. But even there, in the near future, it will become saturated. Then the population will find another place. People will find where to seek wealth. It must be produced. A person who, for example, in Tehran has to work

Is there any international experience of transferring the capital that has been successful and caused the least economic and social damage?

There are three experiences that we are facing right now. One is Turkey and the cities of Istanbul and Ankara. One is America and the cities of Washington and New York. And one is Germany and Frankfurt and Berlin. The government is not centralized in these places, it is scattered and distributed. For example, in America, all industries are not concentrated in one place, they are scattered. In this situation, the government is not dependent on these areas. Now Washington has become a political management area, but even Washington creates a big headache for them, which previously New York used to create. Look at Berlin and Frankfurt. It’s the same there. Or for example, Istanbul and Ankara. In these places, the economic sphere governs itself in the political sphere. Industries such as automotive, construction, oil, food, clothing, and others are in America, which govern in the political sphere. But in Iran, since the time of Mr. Hashemi Rafsanjani, factories have been established

Thank you for the time you have given to the monthly magazine of the peace line.