The importance of non-governmental organizations, their role in development, and their ability to help solve social problems were among the topics discussed in an interview with Dr. Saeed Madani, a writer and sociologist, in the monthly magazine “Khat-e-Solh”. He emphasized that, in his opinion, “in the current situation, the government, with all the resources at its disposal, is not able to solve social problems” and the main issue is the lack of proper governance. Until this issue is addressed, social problems will continue to reoccur. According to this sociologist, the number of non-governmental organizations and the tendency towards community activities in Iran is very low, and it is the responsibility of everyone to contribute to the growth and development of this sector of civil society. He expresses hope and says that today, more than ever, Iranian civil society is experiencing unity.

But less than a week before the publication of this issue of the Peace Line magazine, Dr. Saeed Madani was arrested and taken to solitary confinement in Iran by security forces, with all his concerns and hopes.

You can read the detailed conversation of the monthly magazine “Khat-e-Solh” with Dr. Saeed Modani below:

In your opinion, why is the existence and development of non-governmental organizations important?

Non-governmental organizations are a part of civil society; therefore, let us rephrase your question to why civil society development is important. Civil society allows for direct citizen participation in decision-making and exercising people power to improve the quality of life. A necessary condition for civil society is “citizenship,” which is the product of rationality or behavior based on reason by the people; meaning that people can only truly engage in the process of life if they have the fundamental right to happiness and well-being and can take responsibility for organizing their lives in all cultural, political, and economic spheres through cooperation with each other. The principle of voluntary cooperation based on recognizing each other’s rights allows citizens to better secure their interests and guarantee their rights.

To achieve a civil society and strengthen it, the independence of civil institutions from the authoritarian systems and values that these systems try to impose on citizens is of fundamental importance. Therefore, individuals must critically examine the foundations of their own system by referring to authentic values of life. In other words, while dominant systems seek homogenization, formal unity, and their desired order, the natural process of social life is not limited to diversity, variety, and multiplicity of interests. On the other hand, established systems often try to determine and strive for all the needs and expectations of society, but the problem is that without active participation and involvement of the community, it is not possible to understand their needs, expectations, and demands. Furthermore, in a large, diverse society, it is not realistic to expect individuals to have the opportunity to pursue their desires and demands individually. Instead, it is expected that the community as a whole, through the formation of diverse civil institutions and constructive dialogue, with self-awareness,

Civil society is an ideal social structure in which the gap between the two layers of government and the people is filled by civil institutions, so that power and freedom are not unlimited and the destructive transformation of the foundation of society can be prevented. In such a society, which is based on two main pillars of “rights” and “people”, a set of laws is necessary to establish order, and the right of every citizen is the ability granted by society in the form of these laws. Non-governmental organizations play a role as one of the components of civil society and by strengthening their power in the public sphere, they pave the way for people’s sovereignty and are therefore very important.

What is the relationship between the development of civil societies in a community and the deepening of democracy in it? To what extent can they contribute to empowering civil society?

Civil society is a construct of social relationships that stands in opposition to the government, but this does not necessarily mean conflict and confrontation with the government. Rather, it is an intermediary space between the individual and the government. In this way, civil society creates a set of institutions, organizations, associations, and non-governmental groups that free themselves from government interference and control. Mardini, a prominent researcher, believes that civil society is not a Western ideal, but a common heritage of human civilization that has abundant evidence in the history of the Middle East. However, he emphasizes that civil society, as a phenomenon based on the rule of law and the independence of society and the individual from the government, is a product of the historical experience of Western civilization. Sometimes civil society is considered equivalent to the entire society, while in general, civil society is different from society as a whole, and citizens engage in expressing their desires, interests, thoughts, and exchanging information in the public sphere. This free dialogue in

How effective can non-governmental organizations be in solving social problems and issues?

For NGOs, three important duties have been assigned. First, to provide a platform for people to help each other with humanistic goals. Second, to create small but possible models for improving the social situation that can also be presented to governments for them to use in providing social services. And third, to organize the demands of the people and society from the government. NGOs can be effective in controlling and reducing social damages and problems while carrying out all three mentioned activities.

Samanas have been called as a link between people, government, and private sector. With this explanation, does the existence of samanas in a way absolve governments of their responsibilities?

Most thinkers believe that with the development and renovation of society, the separation between the political system and the social system is a natural and necessary matter; meaning that a complex and evolved society cannot function, maintain, and survive in a single body. Therefore, the continuation of the life of society requires the recognition of a new system, or the civil society, alongside the old composition of society. With the addition of this new system, which has a different nature from previous systems, the relationships between the constituent elements of society also undergo changes.

In this way, the old dualistic society (family-state) gradually becomes equipped with a new aspect, namely civil society, with the entrance into the modern era, in which each aspect has different economic, legal, and relational systems. Civil society acts as an intermediary between the family and the state.

“Society is a place of tensions and contradictions. Social spaces where these contradictions arise must be identified and controlled through specific mechanisms. According to Hegel, the selfish desires of two individuals are eliminated through marriage in the realm of the family, and individuals are also resolved in society as a whole through the formation of a government. However, in civil society, there exist both factors of social disintegration and factors of social cohesion and unity. In civil society, humans engage in economic exchange with each other based on their selfish economic desires, creating a space for the pursuit of individual interests. Marx saw civil society as synonymous with bourgeois society. The realm of work and life, or civil society, although a place for common social actions, is also dominated by greed, selfishness, and exploitation. Therefore, civil society, like the local government, is a place for the minority of capitalists to exercise control over the majority without capital. Along with Marx, Gramsci also sees civil society as a space for class struggle

The important issue is the government’s decision on how to deal with civil society. The government can choose to involve civil society as a partner in development or see it as a competitor and obstacle, as ultimately it must share its centralized power with it. To organize civil society, the use of police force, formation of professional institutions, legislation, and seeking public approval may be necessary, but there is no consensus on these matters. Many theorists have considered the inevitable conflict between the desires and interests of the government and civil society, and for this reason, they have discussed the role of the government in shaping and strengthening civil society.

Discussions about civil society are mainly focused on the existence of an intermediary class between the government and society, but this statement has gradually changed and the intermediary class has expanded and spread to become an intermediary society. This meaning of civil society requires acceptance of diversity and variety of classes, professions, cultures, politics, and social aspects within this society. At the same time, this concept requires complete independence of civil society from the government; a topic that is less debated in terms of its principle, but has many ifs and buts, especially in developing countries and particularly in Iran. Therefore, in summarizing the perspectives on civil society, it can be concluded that: firstly, contrary to expectations or claims of some individuals, governments are not the main factor in the formation of civil society; although they can be a facilitator or an obstacle to its formation. Development-oriented governments generally place special emphasis and importance on the participation of civil society in the development process and welcome the strengthening of civil society, but they never

Let’s go back to our country. In Iran, to what extent do NGOs play a role in the discussion of comprehensive development?

Almost nothing; because the NGOs are not yet capable, both quantitatively and qualitatively, to take on such a big role. The civil society in Iran, as well as the NGOs, are currently fighting for survival and striving to become stronger; therefore, it is not realistic to expect them to play a significant role in comprehensive development; however, they can be good observers and monitor governments and political systems and hold them accountable.

To what extent can NGOs in Iran help solve social problems? What are the obstacles in their way?

As I mentioned in previous questions, it should not be expected that NGOs take on the responsibility of controlling and reducing social harms, either in their entirety or in a large part. In the current circumstances, the government is not even able to solve social problems with all the resources at its disposal, because the main cause of these problems, including addiction, poverty, inequality, suicide, theft, and murder, is the structure of governance, and until it is reformed, social problems will continue to be reproduced. Of course, NGOs serve within their resources and capabilities, and they also demand that governments be forced to intervene more seriously.

In Iran, we have ineffective non-governmental organizations that are only registered and have no executive function. Why do you think such organizations exist? Is there a specific goal set by the government for these institutions in terms of statistics?

Civil society organizations are either active or inactive for various reasons. Some are essentially created by the government and serve as a means of transferring rent, although their number is not large. The channels for transferring rent in the political system are so widespread and extensive that there is no need to resort to this path, but it cannot be denied that there have been reports of such organizations existing. However, a larger group is unable to operate due to limited resources or the inability to secure resources, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic or economic recession. Another part of these organizations also lacks the necessary knowledge to be active and must become capable.

In your opinion, is the number of non-governmental organizations in Iran sufficient relative to the country’s population?

“Seriously! The number of non-governmental organizations in Iran is still very low and there is very little inclination towards community activities in Iran; therefore, as a national duty, everyone should contribute to the growth and development of this sector of civil society organizations.”

In what period in the last two decades have seminars had the most activity in Iran? What do you know about the reason for this?

Although many commentators believe that the formation of civil society has been postponed to the formation of the modern state on one hand and the separation of society and state for entry into the contemporary era, if we consider the definition of civil society to include forces that have tried to influence society in terms of meaning and values, it can be remembered that before the Constitutional Revolution, various movements in the form of social and intellectual institutions, especially religious and spiritual ones, have done so. The political system of Iran before the Constitutional Revolution had a traditional pattern. In this traditional structure, there was no power, law, or mutual commitment between the king and the people; meaning that the king had no commitment to the people and the kingdom was considered the king’s vast property. Everyone was obligated and responsible to the king, and the king was considered the beneficiary and rightful owner. This situation also prevailed in the Qajar government in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. The king could impose his personal opinion on the entire country and claim anything

During the Qajar era, religion was able to gain control over civil society and rise above other discourses; as a result, the stabilization of the ideological system and the dominance of religion in civil society led to the possibility of a common language, symbols, ceremonies, institutions such as mosques and husseiniyas, education and schools, etc. to act in line with a specific worldview. This power and influence also caused the established system to be under the influence and hegemony of the clergy as the dominant discourse. It is possible to explain and interpret the Tobacco Movement within this framework as well.

With the occurrence of the Constitutional Revolution and the drafting of the first constitution of the country, this situation changed to a great extent. In the constitutional monarchy system, the king’s powers in the affairs of the country were greatly limited and the parliament and judiciary were established. The law was recognized as the authority for solving problems to some extent. In addition, during this period, other important changes occurred, such as urbanization, increase in general education, formation of the industrial sector, and continuation of the country’s industrialization process. There were also changes in social stratification, especially the emergence of the middle class, which made it possible to form and strengthen civil society more than before. Although the Constitutional Revolution itself was the result of conflicts between new forces that had entered into competition and conflict with the religious institution, it also made it possible for new forces to enter civil society. As a result, two traditional and modern forces with two discourses of tradition and rationality entered into a hundred-year conflict,

Gradually, this traditional, semi-modern, and modern society became. The most important factors that paved the way for the transformation of traditional civil society to semi-modern were the expansion of public and virtual spaces, the complexity of social classes, the birth of new civil institutions and organizations, the growth of media, the increase in political parties and groups, and the formation of civil movements (student, women, and human rights). However, today’s civil institutions and organizations have grown significantly in terms of both number and type compared to the Constitutional period.

In the Islamic Republic, it is estimated that there are around twenty thousand non-governmental organizations, although many of them are not active. Civil society organizations, despite having different discourses, can have significant and valuable achievements for Iranian society if they are not biased. This was the case during the constitutional revolution and the Islamic revolution, but with the emergence of intellectual, ideological, and identity struggles, conflicts within organizations and the delegation of dialogue and discussions about discourses to the dominance of political parties and groups, civil society becomes weaker and the dominant power becomes stronger.

Today, civil society is more than ever facing convergence. In terms of policy, it includes a spectrum from reformism to democratization in the four corners of reformism, emphasizes national interests, and shares the need for internal change. It values democracy and pursues gradual change, gradual goals, and peaceful progress. Civil society recognizes political, social, and cultural differences and supports grassroots movements. Therefore, it is worthy of providing the opportunity for participation and accumulation of all forces in a suitable structure. This convergence is never meant to be the end of what Gramsci called the “war of movements” in civil society. Discussion, dialogue, and efforts to gain intellectual and identity hegemony within civil society are endless, but the arena for these discussions and competitions is ideas, not organizations and structures. This convergence is not even meant to create its own specialized institutions or even take over other social institutions, but all of these activities can be done within the framework of considering the interests of civil society and reforms as a

Thank you for the opportunity you have given us to use the peace line.