According to him, the goal of eradicating poverty in the country by support institutions has not been achieved in the past forty years. He also emphasizes the need for centralized information and land management in Iran and criticizes the proliferation and overlap of institutions with similar responsibilities. He is Masoumeh Aghapour Alishahi, representative of the tenth term of the Islamic Consultative Assembly from the Shabestar constituency in East Azerbaijan province.

The unstable situation of support institutions in the country and the increase of poverty in Iran, in a situation where these institutions have been formed with the claim of eradicating poverty, the monthly magazine “Khat-e-Solh” held a conversation with Masoumeh Aghapour Alishahi, a former representative of the parliament, to discuss this issue. This economics graduate, while mentioning examples of her efforts during her time as a representative to solve the issue of poverty in Shabestar city, as well as what she has seen from the realities of her society and criticizing the proliferation of institutions and bureaucratic layers in Iran, said that parallel work and scattered information in the country often create opportunities for abuse and corruption.

Ali Shahi also told the peace line magazine that institutions such as the Relief Committee do not submit annual reports to the country’s supervisory institutions or parliament, and most likely submit their reports to the higher institution, namely the Leader’s Office.

You can read the detailed conversation of the monthly magazine “Khat-e-Solh” with Masoumeh Aghapour Alishahi below:

Supportive institutions such as the Relief Committee and the Foundation for the Oppressed were formed from the beginning of the revolution with the aim of eradicating poverty in the country. Ms. Alishahi, in your opinion, what have been the criteria, perspectives, and strategies of these institutions in the field of poverty alleviation?

These institutions are making every effort in this regard. But unfortunately, due to various issues and lack of coordination in payment rights and allowances, the number of people living below the poverty line has increased and these institutions have inevitably faced challenges and problems in providing services. Despite their efforts, due to the increase in the number of those in need, their efforts cannot yield the desired results.

This means that in the current situation in the country and due to the issues you mentioned, support institutions have not been able to help solve the problem?

Unfortunately, this is how it is. The salaries that are paid do not match inflation. Additionally, the number of people who need to be covered increases every day. For this reason, we cannot say that providing coverage for these families by these institutions will lead to a desirable result.

The question here is whether scientific and research approaches have been taken into account in policymaking in this field.

Efforts have been made to address one of the fundamental problems in the country, which I doubt will be resolved in the next five-year plan, which is the existence of bureaucratic administration that ties the hands and feet of everyone. Personally, in the field of energy economics, I have made great efforts to teach fishing instead of giving fish to families. One of the things I emphasized and tried to implement as a pilot project in my own county (Shabestar county) was the use of new energies. By that, I mean 5-kilowatt solar power plants for families under the coverage of the Relief Committee. We wanted to purchase and install these devices in installments and have them paid off through their own monthly payments. The idea was that the income generated from these power plants would replace those monthly payments and when the installments were fully paid, the power plants would belong to that family. However, even for this small project for a hundred families, we were only able to make some

Regarding the example you mentioned, where was the problem coming from and which institution or organization was involved?

Financial and contractual issues that need to be negotiated with the private sector and then connected to the power plants, followed by the issue of supervision that needs to be addressed. In addition, a contract must be made between the Relief Committee, the families, and the Ministry of Energy. Of course, the East Azerbaijan Power Company was with us. The families we had in mind were also with us. Locations had to be identified and equipment had to be provided. However, in the financial sector, neither the government takes responsibility nor does it provide the money to the private sector. A maintenance contract must be made with the private sector. This is a very simple task. However, there is no algorithm or system in place to make these contracts. In some cases, there are many obstacles for ministries to make contracts with the private sector and provide these equipment. There are so many obstacles and inspections that managers prefer to do short-term tasks instead of long-term and future-oriented tasks. In fact, supervision and inspections tie

We can easily use the implemented patterns of our neighboring countries or countries like the Netherlands that have been successful in this field, and while imitating them, we can localize them. Why should we build the wheel from scratch? On the other hand, bureaucracies, meetings, and committees make the process of any work lengthy. When the process of such projects is lengthy, inflation takes over; the result is that when we reach the final stages of the contract, we see that the budget allocated for the whole issue is no longer effective and is not responsive.

Well, with the conditions you mentioned, are the partial supports of the Relief Committee responsive to the needs of the covered individuals?

Finally, they are also making efforts in their community. Their budget is limited and the number of deprived people is very high. As a result, they are forced to involve philanthropists in this field.

I believe that all supportive institutions such as the Relief Committee, Welfare Organization, Benevolent Foundation, and the Imam’s Command Center should be organized under one entity. Then, they should accurately identify individuals in need and plan carefully to address their problems. In fact, we also have a serious issue in identifying individuals in need. There have been cases where the head of a family has had an accident and due to disability, was unable to work. However, due to judgments and people’s opinions, this person and their family did not introduce themselves to the Relief Committee. Or, for example, incidents occur where in a small village with less than 200 households, the male head of a family passes away. The woman becomes the head of the household and is placed under the coverage of the Relief Committee. However, due to the fact that everyone knows each other in these villages and there is a culture of eye contact, shame, and other cultural issues, there is not a good approach towards the person under

In fact, the issue is identifying the truly needy families. I have come across families who were supported by both the relief committee and received welfare and monthly allowances, as well as being supported by people-run charities. This means that one family receives assistance from three to four sources, while another family is in need of even their daily bread.

The question that arises is whether the family that does not introduce itself, considers receiving aid from the relief committee as bad? In other words, has the social status of receiving aid from the relief committee become negative?

See, the problem is that many people do not have a positive view of families that are underprivileged. What I mean is that in a small environment, like a village, their children are looked down upon. As a result, these families may not turn to the relief committee out of fear of losing their dignity.

A while ago, news was published that individuals with high income are under the coverage of the Relief Committee. The head of the Relief Committee denied this issue. But according to what you say, there are families with high income who are under the coverage of the Relief Committee.

These are the families. Of course, I may be mistaken. But in my opinion – similar to a census in the country – the relief committee should gather and record accurate statistics of all the families under its coverage every five years. Another point is, why are there so many scattered statistics? The relief committee has its own statistical and informational system, the Foundation for the Oppressed has its own statistical system, the Imam’s Command Headquarters has its own separate website, the Targeted Subsidies Organization has its own separate website and database, and the Ministry of Welfare and Social Affairs also has one. When will we have a complete infrastructure of personal information of individuals in a specific center and in a transparent manner so that we can make proper planning and decision-making based on it?

This is the same parallel work of institutions in Iran.

Yes, parallelism and dispersion of information. In many places, this dispersion of information creates opportunities for misuse.

The question here is how transparent is the financial rotation in the Relief Committee or other supportive institutions and can supervisory institutions monitor them?

The relief committee or foundation for the underprivileged and similar organizations do not report to the National Audit Office. The parliament, which has no oversight in this area, should be asked how it intends to monitor these institutions when there are no reports. Are they behaving in accordance with their budget or not?

Do you think this lack of transparency and failure to report does not create corruption?

Of course, they may also submit their reports to other supervisory institutions such as the Supreme Leader’s office. But overall, I have emphasized the main problem many times. We must have a precise and transparent focus on information, whether it is related to resources, expenditures, or the number of individuals and households in society and their characteristics. Let’s give an example. A ministry presents such a positive report to the parliament that everything seems to be perfect. But if that’s the case, why do we have so many problems? What are they afraid of that they don’t give an accurate report? They are afraid that if they say they have a crisis, their managers and employees might be replaced, or there might be a problem with their indicators, or there might be changes in their budget. This is happening in the 21st century and we shouldn’t be afraid of reality. We must identify crises realistically and strive to solve them. For example, in something as simple as inflation statistics,

The issue of job creation by support institutions is also raised. Some say that these job creations are only on paper. What is your opinion?

In my opinion, we should reconsider some of our structures. For example, we have a ministry called the Ministry of Cooperatives, Labor, and Social Welfare, which has a deputy called Employment. The overlap in responsibilities leads to inefficiency. In this situation, welfare itself creates employment. The Relief Committee creates its own employment. The Imam’s Command Headquarters creates its own employment. The Ministry of Industry creates employment in its own way, and the Ministry of Labor and Social Welfare does it differently. In this situation, everyone can blame each other’s shortcomings and in the end, there will be no output. That is, the result of all these forces will be zero. That’s why I say we need to change the structure first.

There is another problem regarding job creation. Let me give you an example. In some cases, the relief committee provides money and materials such as yarn and thread to individuals and families to weave carpets. The carpets are woven, but then what happens? There is no market to sell these carpets! Meanwhile, after the work is done, the committee takes back the loan from that family and cuts off their monthly allowance, claiming that they have created a job for them through carpet weaving!

But we are actually facing the same structure! In this structure and according to the constitution, the parliament should be at the forefront of affairs. But you say that there is no oversight over these supportive institutions by the parliament. On the other hand, the budget of these institutions is allocated to them annually by the Joint Commission in the Islamic Consultative Assembly.

See, I myself, during my time as a representative, once requested a report from the Relief Committee regarding the issue of women heading households and the reconstruction of their homes. I asked them to report back, to be accountable if there were any problems, and ultimately to find a solution to the problem. However, it is not the case that supervisory institutions in the country – such as the General Inspectorate Organization – focus on institutions like the Relief Committee and, for example, a report like the Court of Audit’s report on government budget deviations does not come from them. These supportive institutions are not discussed annually in the parliament. If representatives want, they can report to them individually or in groups, but it is not the case that the issue is discussed and reviewed annually and seriously in the public forum and the Court of Audit gives its opinion on it.

Let me ask again. Do you think this situation is corrupt?

See, in terms of corruption, let me give an example from my own county. In our county, the budget was so limited and small that if it weren’t for the philanthropists in our county, the relief committee wouldn’t have been able to do anything. The amount and budget are so small and the number of people seeking help from these institutions is so high that either corruption is not possible or it is very minimal. Most of the work in counties and villages is done by philanthropists. For example, now that Eid is approaching, I know that the relief committee is looking for philanthropists and wealthy benefactors to gather financial aid from them to give to those in need. They don’t have money themselves. Usually, the situation on the night of Eid or near the month of Ramadan is the same in small counties.

With these details and discussions, can we say that the goal of eradicating poverty, upon which supportive institutions were formed, has not been achieved?

This goal, which we expected and thought would be achieved in forty years, has not been reached. Both external and internal factors have influenced this matter; external factors such as inflation and international conditions, and internal factors such as bureaucratic administrative structures and the fact that the annual reports of these supportive institutions do not seem to reach the general public. In addition, necessary monitoring is not being carried out. Furthermore, the division in this branch and the existence of parallel institutions that cannot cover each other should not be forgotten.

Thank you for the time you have given to the peace line.