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Conversation with Ehsan Hossein Zadeh

This text is an interview with an Iranian transgender person named S.M, who shares very useful information about trans people, their struggles, and personal experiences from the perspective of a trans person who has undergone gender reassignment surgery. Reading this report is strongly recommended for those who have limited knowledge about trans people or hold prejudice and enmity towards them due to societal biases and religious beliefs.

Trans people in Iran face many difficulties. From laws that harm them instead of supporting them, to a culture that labels them with various negative terms and ostracizes them, and families that subject them to mental and physical abuse instead of providing support. In a conversation I had with Sh.M, some of these issues were mentioned. In this interview, we will try to get closer to the life of a trans person who has undergone gender reassignment surgery and through personal questions, familiarize the reader with all aspects of a trans person’s life. Because getting to know the lives of trans people is the first step in understanding them, and it is necessary to know the most intimate aspects of their lives. It is only by touching on their problems that we can demand various forms of support from society for this group of citizens. Unfortunately, not only does the established medical and legal system in Iran harm trans people, but the lack of a proper understanding of trans people by Iranian society has also caused them great harm

Where should we start?

Sexual relationships are a very personal matter, but in Iran, in addition to the government, people are also interested in discovering sexual relationships. There are many in Iran who may not even be transgender, but in the conservative society of Iran, they are labeled as “homosexuals.” Or because they see that what they are is not accepted (for example, if a girl is interested in other girls, but cannot be with them), they think it is wrong. These attitudes are wrong in Iranian culture and law; when I came to Europe and saw transgender people, I realized how comfortable their lives are. Transgender people in Europe live their lives as they are. For example, I know transgender people in Iran who bind their chests to hide them. But in Europe, I have seen how these individuals were even naked at parties and dancing; it didn’t matter to them what others thought of their bodies and society didn’t point fingers at them. We are very conservative in Iran and deal with this

Does that mean if you lived in an open society, you wouldn’t take action?

No, I never did the surgery. Because after the surgery, I became a completely different person and my whole life changed.

Why? Because your official sexual identity in society has completely changed from female to male?

See, before I underwent the surgery, I was in my own character. I was a woman and my social interactions were normal. But when I had the surgery, my appearance completely changed to that of a child. In fact, the face of a 30-year-old man can never look like that of a child, but when you put a feminine face on a masculine identity, the story becomes something else. Once after my surgery, a driver from an agency told me that he also has a son your age. I asked how old his son was and he said 10 years old! I was going crazy with surprise. Or for example, once when I was driving and trying to find a parking spot, a colonel saw me and asked how old I was to be sitting behind the wheel. I got into a whole argument trying to prove my age.

Do you have a certificate of being a girl now or do you have a certificate with a male identity?

My certificate is the same as a female certificate and whenever I have a problem, I have a document that shows and explains it; because I did my surgeries legally in Iran. It’s interesting to know that until the final surgery is done and the male genitalia is not implanted, none of the identification documents change from female to male. Imagine that I have to go through all these surgeries because of the ridiculous laws of the Islamic Republic just so they will finally allow my identity cards and other documents to change from female to male; what kind of logic is this!?

“Of course, after my surgery, I had a particular bias towards being a man. For example, if someone called me by my previous feminine name, I would get really angry. But when I came to Europe and saw the more liberated lives of trans people here, I asked myself, what have I done to myself?!”

How many years have you been in practice?

It has been almost 3 years since I had the surgery. After the surgery, it was very important for me to take my hormone therapy pills and injections on time, but it didn’t happen. Unfortunately, doctors in Iran are only concerned about taking money. This surgery is not covered by insurance and we have to spend a lot of money. Later, the doctors told me that I shouldn’t have had the surgery so soon; I should have done hormone therapy first. They said that since the most important reproductive organ in a woman’s body is her uterus and ovaries, when you want to remove it, preparation must be done beforehand.

What does preparation mean?

It means they have to take vitamins, follow a special diet, and take a series of hormonal medications before the surgery. I didn’t know about these and even after three months of the process, I was still clueless. I wasn’t injecting hormones for a while and because I didn’t have a uterus or ovaries, I had reached a point where I was really dying. I was sweating profusely, getting cold, and trembling. Once, due to this severe condition, I went to the emergency room at 6 am. That same day, I found a good doctor who was surprised and asked me, “What have you done to yourself?!” Of course, the cost of visiting that doctor was extremely expensive. Every time I visited, it would cost close to 700,000 tomans, and that was with insurance. And about one and a half million tomans (with insurance) were spent on my medications.

I was unemployed at that time (after the surgery) and paying these expenses was very difficult for me. But luckily, I had a girlfriend who supported me.

Do you tell me more about your girlfriend?

He was my partner. We were supposed to get married. I even had surgery to marry my girlfriend. But after the surgery, I felt really bad because of hormonal issues. It’s still bad now, but back then it felt like everything had changed and that’s when we separated… and it was one of the hardest things in my life. I had to separate from a girl I loved deeply, just because I couldn’t handle the new circumstances after my surgery. However, she thought that after the surgery, I went after love and fun, while that wasn’t the case at all; all I could think about was who I am and what I want to do!

I have a friend who had surgery after me. Because of his job and sports, he didn’t want to have the surgery and risk losing his job opportunities. But after I had the surgery, he also decided to have it. My friend’s situation is very different from mine and every time I see his pictures on Instagram, I can tell he is happy. The reason is that he didn’t lose his partner, his family didn’t reject him, he still has his job and has actually become a coach at a men’s club. When I talked to his mother once, she was very happy and said that after forty years, God gave her a son. These are very important matters.

After 3 years, have you still not been able to come to terms with your new identity?

No, it’s because my emotions and behavior are very feminine, but my sexual desire is masculine and I am attracted to girls. However, since I had the operation, I am no longer attracted to girls! Now I have no attraction to girls or boys! I don’t have any sexual orientation at all!

What is the reason? Do you think it’s because of the hormonal medications you’re taking?

I feel like I went into shock after the surgery. It was a very difficult surgery. In a very short time, without considering hormonal issues, I had my uterus, ovaries, and breasts removed. My body was so swollen after the surgery that I felt like a completely different person. I was so bloated that none of my clothes fit me. When I asked my doctor about the reason for this, he said there were bacterial bubbles in my body. Even when I went to Europe, my condition didn’t improve much. I had to take testosterone and that’s why I went to see a doctor. The first time I went and told him that I am transgender and have these problems, he had no idea what being transgender meant! I didn’t know how to explain it to him and even when I did, he couldn’t understand how I used to be a girl and now I am a boy with a beard!

Does this mean that even in Europe there is such cultural and cognitive weakness towards trans people?

Unfortunately, yes. I was in a refugee camp for almost 6 months during which they didn’t give me testosterone due to their lack of understanding. I was supposed to inject testosterone every 15 days, but because I couldn’t do my hormones, I was completely messed up and at one point, I was even hospitalized in a psychiatric ward. Whenever I think about that time, I cry. I had just had my surgery, but I was all alone. All my friends were girls, but the girls there thought I was a useless boy. No girl even looked at me. Boys would come and say, “Hey bro, what’s up!” I didn’t like that tone; I had been a girl my whole life and this kind of behavior was not interesting to me at all. It was really a bad situation and until the very end, they didn’t understand that I am trans, what it means!

When was the first time you realized you were trans? Actually, I mean the internal discovery of this issue.

Since childhood, I always had my mother’s makeup pencil and used to draw a mustache and beard for myself. From the age of 4, I liked to hang out with girls. For example, when we were in middle school and on the school bus, the driver suddenly hit the brakes and I fell into the chest of a girl! I liked this sudden incident and it led to future relationships. I thought these tendencies were natural, but one of my friends once saw my interest in girls and asked, “Are you a lesbian?” That was the moment I realized I was different from others and not all girls were like me. Honestly, this “lesbian” issue bothered me a lot. I constantly questioned myself, why am I a lesbian!? Then what are they!? If you remember, at that time we were not familiar with concepts like lesbian and gay. Those words were not even used and only the term “lesbian” was used. Later, when I grew up, I

Did you have no interest in boys?

No, not at all. My feelings were masculine but my appearance was feminine. For example, I used to wear high heels. Of course, when I was younger, my appearance was also masculine. I once met a girl who always told me to be myself; I ended up being exactly who I am! For example, she would ask me why I wear red lipstick? It suits you, but it’s not for you.

To be honest, if I were to think logically, I might not have been a trans and instead a lesbian. For example, I’m not like other boys, not tough or serious; on the contrary, I’m very gentle. I know some trans people who are very close with boys. They go to the park or play football with them. But I wasn’t like that. Lesbians are not all the same, and this orientation has different branches. We have soft lesbians, butch lesbians, and so on. For example, we have a lesbian who has a masculine demeanor and appearance, but is sexually attracted to girls. Or there is a group of lesbians who have a masculine appearance but don’t like to have sex with anyone. Another type is when two girls who are both lesbians enjoy each other’s company. If you watch the series “Delavardeh,” there is a character named Shin who I really like, and the character I have in mind is exactly like him.

Wouldn’t it have been better to receive counseling from a psychologist before the operation? I think if you had received proper counseling, you probably wouldn’t have gone through with the operation.

The psychologist talked to me. I went to the institute for 72 hours.

Was it mandatory to go to this institute for counseling on behalf of the government?

Yes, I had to go and I went. But from my perspective, the experience is much more important. In my opinion, anyone who thinks they are trans in Iran should leave before the operation and see the lifestyles of trans people here to determine which category they belong to and what they are. Then, if they want, they can undergo surgery. I had the operation, but if I look at it logically, I will never become a complete man. So if I accept my life, it is much better than going under the knife.

Currently, if necessary, which option would you choose when filling out a form that asks for your gender?

If the options are only male or female, I won’t answer at all. I am neither male nor female. In the end, I won’t become a man like you! Or that boy who wants to become a girl won’t end up as a complete woman! It’s impossible! No matter what you do, it won’t work!

Because you were once a girl and have feminine experiences?

No, actually this can be one of the advantages of the situation, for being happy and kind; because women are kind. The problem is that I can never have something similar to the reproductive organ that you have. Even if I have surgery and get an artificial testicle, what will be the end result? What good will this artificial testicle do for me!? I cannot have children with this artificial object, nor does it have any other benefit for me. Why should I do this? Or for example, have a reproductive organ surgery.

Have you had sexual relations with a boy before the operation?

Yes, I had sexual relations with a boy but I didn’t feel anything. In fact, it made me feel very bad; to the point that if I saw him again, I would punch him in the face! But when I had sexual relations with girls, it was very good. I used to feel different before the surgery. I used to love having sexual relations, and my girlfriends liked me because I was a good sexual partner. But since the surgery, I can no longer have sexual relations. Everything has changed. I used to be a girl and have sex like that, but now I am no longer a girl. It’s like my whole body is giving an error message…

Did you feel completely satisfied when you had sexual relations with girls at that time?

No, I have only been able to have a satisfying sexual relationship with two girls, who were both lesbians. You know, when the other person is not a lesbian and expects me to have male genitalia and satisfy them in that way, I didn’t even want to take off my clothes for them to find out that I am incomplete. Now that things are worse, I have a strong urge but I don’t have male genitalia. This feeling has really messed up my mind and soul. Now I have a phobia towards sexual relationships. Not only towards sex, but I also don’t have good feelings towards people anymore. I don’t want to get close to them. I used to be a very energetic person, but unfortunately I have become very depressed and sick.

Does it mean that all of your girlfriends were not lesbians?

Not necessarily, some of them were straight. They were with boys, but they also liked me. For example, they would say how cute it is that you’re a girl but your behavior is completely masculine.

On the one hand, my job was being a makeup artist. I worked in women’s tattooing. Imagine, I would connect with my clients in a way that they would quickly become intimate with me. But after the procedure, everything fell apart. In fact, after the procedure, I basically had trouble connecting with the people around me. For example, I had gone to my brother who was also a male makeup artist. I was in agony, I had no idea how to interact and communicate with men. Before the procedure, when I worked in a women’s salon, just by saying something like “Your hair looks great”, a conversation would start and we could talk for three hours. But when I said to a man, “Your hair looks cool”, he would just say “yeah” and that’s it!

With all these experiences, do you think being a man is good or being a woman?

Now that I have become a man, I see how much better it is to be a woman.

Do they allow you to have gatherings and share your experiences with each other in Iran?

If you are transgender, yes. We have such communities, but I have never participated. I haven’t participated because in my view, we are not real! We act because we are forced to live under abnormal conditions and under the weight of society’s accusing finger.

What is your perspective on “Zirbar”? What is Zirbar?

For example, before I even took action, everyone would say “Who is this? What is this?” Even some of my friends’ families disrespected me. They would say we don’t want you talking to our daughter.

What bothered you?

They used to say that you are “gay” and didn’t know what transgender was. The school was the same way. For example, a girl would fall in love with me and then they would kick me out of school. Another one would cut my hand with a knife, calling me “S.H” (my name), and they would expel me. They expelled me so much that no school would accept me anymore, even though I was a very smart and good kid.

One more thing I have to say. When I came to Europe, I saw things that really scared me. I don’t want to insult anyone, but those trans people who had undergone surgery were almost all crazy. I mean, when interacting with them, you could tell they didn’t have normal behavior. Of course, it was good that I saw these things. Because I came to the conclusion that I shouldn’t do it, otherwise I would become crazy like them. Now I am living my life, I have given up on sex and partners, but at least I am preserving my mental health.

Does it seem to you that the trans person who has undergone surgery has done something wrong?

Not necessarily. There are many who are truly trans. They should take action.

How far are the conditions in Iran from the ideal conditions you expect in dealing with trans people?

There is a great distance. At first, it is important that the family does not have any involvement in this matter. Parents should not have any involvement in whether you are a girl or a boy! Parents should think about which situation makes you happier. My own family has caused me the most harm. My mother, who at the age of 30 accepted that I had to have surgery, now says, “I wish you hadn’t had the surgery! I want my daughter back!” Every time she says this, it feels like the world is falling apart on me. I expect my mother to support me in this journey, not to empty my heart every day. I expect her to push me forward, not to make me regret the path I am on. These things made me run away from home and family. I was so full of doubts, mental issues, and crises even before the surgery, and I didn’t have the support of my family, I attempted suicide.

Regarding my family, I must also say that not only did they not support me, but they always saw me as a despicable and deviant person. In my professional life, they never encouraged me, never invested in me, and instead all investments were made on my brother. Nevertheless, I made progress and was very successful in my career.

Is it assumed that your mental state has worsened at the moment?

Yes, it has gotten worse because I am no longer a girl; now I am intersex. When anyone sees me, they think I am a boy because I have facial hair. But I am not a boy and this makes the situation worse. I am completely lost and don’t know who I am or what I want to do. If I truly were a boy, I would have to go play football with the boys every day, but I don’t like doing that. Instead, it’s enough for me to just be around a group of girls. I sit there and don’t move. Not because of sexual issues, but simply because I enjoy being around women. Well, I used to be a woman and I still don’t feel like I am a boy.

If you come to me in the morning and tell me to go outside, my hands start shaking right away. In fact, I am stressed all day and only become a little calmer at night. Even when my phone rings, my body starts trembling. I don’t know the reason for all this stress and tension. It has become so bad that I can’t even go outside. When I left the house in the morning, one of the neighbors saw me and said hello. I replied with a soft voice, like a girl. Then I hated myself. I thought to myself, if I am a man, then what is this soft and childish voice that I have!? These inner struggles exist every day…

What is the performance quality of the implanted device? Has it given poor results for everyone who has undergone the procedure?

In my opinion, it’s a matter of luck. It could turn out well, or it could be bad! I don’t have the courage for it. If you search on Google, you’ll see how terrifying and difficult this type of surgery is. First, they remove the uterus and ovaries, then they empty the breasts, and then a cosmetic surgery is needed to make you look like a man. Finally, the operation to transplant the genitals and testicles is extremely difficult and affects the whole body. In the end, the genitals won’t be completely normal. The skin will have different colors because they take skin from the forearm and place it there. We have been oppressed in Iran, it would have been better if they had accepted us as we are – lesbians – so we wouldn’t have to go through these hardships. And there are others who are even worse off. They are treated very cruelly. Many people who saw me would say, “How interesting, this girl is just

Do you want to say that being a boy is a kind of privilege?

Exactly! Because the behavior towards LGBTQ+ individuals is very bad. They are told, “Why do you act so feminine!?” What I mean is that they are being belittled.

You say that you do not intend to undergo another surgery. But why not, since you have come this far? Is it possible to turn back from this path? To be a girl again? Was it better for you as you think?

See, as long as you haven’t gone through this terrifying act, this identity is half and half with a human. You always go through a path for its final result, but now I’m afraid to go through this path until the end. When I was a girl, I always imagined myself as a boy and wanted to have a beard and a flat chest. Now I have these, but I never wanted to have male genitalia. I never imagined myself with male genitalia. Now I can’t even think about it. I don’t see it in my power, nor do I see life as important and serious enough to go through such a heavy and terrifying act. This surgery is very difficult. I had my chest surgery and spent a lot of money, but it still doesn’t look like a male chest and I have to have another surgery. The doctor promised it would be flat, but it didn’t happen. Imagine, I have hair on my body and my chest is getting bigger

Have you come all this way, can you go back?

I don’t want to go back anymore.

Do you currently prefer being a man or a woman?

It’s good that I’m here now!

Do you like being a man?

No, I am not a man! Look, I can’t act or go back and be a woman! It’s the worst situation. I have this pride that doesn’t like being a woman, but my behavior is that of a woman! You know, I am one of those lesbian classifications who is a boy but of the girl type! Well, this is really bad. It’s like being bisexual, a bipolar state, something unknown. I think I’m stuck. I need very advanced counseling. Every counselor I go to wants to accept me as I am. They want to convince me that I am fine, but they don’t offer a solution. I have to come to a conclusion with myself about this matter.

Do you think that if you go all the way and undergo the surgery for testicle and penis transplant, the problem will not be solved?

Throughout my life, I have suffered a lot because of my problems. I have suffered so much that I can no longer handle another shock or another action. Life has not shown me any happiness that I would break myself for it!

Do you think that if there was sexual freedom in Iran, how many percent of problems for people like you would be solved?

100% of their problems were solved if we had a society where we were not judged and constantly asked “Are you a girl? Are you a boy? What are you?” We wouldn’t have any problems anymore. It’s very difficult to have to define and explain yourself every day for people.

How is the role of legal problems – like a hundred lashes -?

One hundred lashes is a good part of the story! Many trans, gay, and lesbian individuals are being assaulted by the police themselves and remain silent. This has happened many times, I know.

Men are attracted to the opposite sex based on instinct. In fact, instinct guides them on how to approach, start a conversation, and become friends with that girl. How is this for you? What I mean is, can you now become friends with a girl you like?

“Now it has become really difficult for me. I wanted to, but I couldn’t. Because I am afraid to make my relationship with a girl more serious. I am afraid that if the relationship becomes serious and she comes to my bed, what should I do with her? One night, I liked a girl at a bar, after dancing and kissing, the story ended up at my house and my bed. But in bed, I didn’t know what to do; I didn’t have any sexual organs and I couldn’t…”

Did you know about your conditions?

Yes, they knew I was trans and wanted to be with me; but it didn’t happen. In fact, I no longer had the possibility of having a sexual relationship like when I was a lesbian. Because it is very painful. This is what caused my sexual desire to disappear completely. After taking hormones, the clitoris becomes more prominent. This prominence makes sexual intercourse very painful.

Do you have any advice for people who are similar to you or in similar situations as you?

My advice is for them to understand who they are and what they want before anything else. They should not make decisions under the influence of society, individuals, or family. They should not think that being a man makes them right. My personal opinion is that we never become perfect men and these actions are just a game with our souls and minds. But if our society accepts that someone is lesbian, gay, or transgender, many of them will not carry the burden of these surgeries on their bodies or nerves.

The Al.J.B.T family is very extensive and you need to understand which category you belong to. Each of these four categories has its own subcategories. When I heard from my counselor that many people commit suicide after surgery, I was surprised. I asked why they would commit suicide? Haven’t they achieved their wish? Didn’t they want to be a boy or a girl? But now I understand the reason. Because I am not a boy now, I am not a girl either. I am not a person who can go to the end and become a boy, nor am I a person who can be a girl; everything has become worse. These are very important points. If someone really intends to do it, at least one cycle before surgery, they should undergo hormone therapy to better understand what they want. For example, they should understand if they are satisfied with the male character they have been placed in. In Europe, they do the same thing. When you take hormones, you grow

In your opinion, what changes should the laws make to improve the situation of trans people?

In my opinion, punishing trans, gay, and lesbian individuals should be abolished and the government should not interfere in personal and sexual relationships of people so that they can be themselves. I really don’t understand why the government needs to inspect people’s sexual relationships. Sex is a natural part of life and should not be heavily regulated.

Another issue is the issue of culturalization. For example, consider someone who is born with a rare disease. They have no control over it and did not choose to have this disease. The same goes for trans and lesbian and gay individuals. We did not choose to be sexually different. In my opinion, this culturalization is very important. Because we are different from the majority of society, we face a lot of conflicts within ourselves and it is not fair for others to also be involved and harassed by us… The headmaster of our school used to tell me, “You are a parasite!” I want to ask him what harm I had done to him! Is it because I was a lesbian that I am considered a parasite?

Thank you for allowing me to speak openly with you. Surely, this interview can correct many misconceptions about lesbians and trans individuals, and I hope that one day the LGBTQ+ community can easily live a normal life in Iran under the support of society and the law.