Conversation with Ali Kalai

Generally, social media activists are those who express their opinions about the field in which they specialize. However, it seems that in addition to activists, we should also seek the help of intellectuals in the field of humanities, especially sociologists, considering the impact of this field on society, and ask them more and learn more about social networks.

Mehrdad Darvishpour, born in Shahrivar 1339 in Tehran, completed his PhD in Sociology at Stockholm University in Sweden and is now a professor and deputy professor at Malardalen University. Mr. Darvishpour, who has been working on developing political theories since the age of 20, has published numerous articles on human rights, the Islamic Revolution, women, migration, anti-racism, and peace.

In this interview, we have discussed with them about the nature of social networks and their role in shaping identities, as well as the effectiveness of activities on these networks. We have also asked this sociologist and researcher about their perspective on new social networks and the reasons for lack of censorship by the government, and inquired about their views.

As the first question, what role do you think social networks play in shaping identity in Iranian society in the current situation? Do you believe they have a significant impact? Also, please share your perspective and understanding of social networks.

The digital revolution, although it may not have made the direct democracy easier in some aspects and in many countries, has at least created a more favorable environment for enlightenment, public discourse, and direct exchange of opinions. In the past, demands and opinions were reflected mainly through protests and gatherings, presence in public media or announcements, pamphlets and books. Those in power and the media were also the “guardians” of the entry and review of opinions. Therefore, all citizens did not have the opportunity to be present and hear their own voices in the public sphere, and even the measurement of public opinion was completely controlled. The media facilities for alternative movements were usually not available from a wide range. Also, not all humans resorted to strikes and protests to express their opinions and demands, unless the space for it was created. In dictatorial countries, the cost of such presence silences the majority of people and as a result, their opinions are not reflected. When there is no possibility of protests,

The digital revolution has disrupted this equation in many ways. Today, citizens can not only instantly share news and express their opinions through social networks such as YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, but these networks have also become tools for organizing. Many protest movements and demonstrations have been organized through calls on these very networks. These networks have even played a decisive role in the popular uprisings in Tunisia and the Arab Spring, as well as the Green Movement in Iran. They have also broken down barriers to censorship by allowing for widespread, direct, and unmediated communication among citizens. Social networks have also increased the potential for alternative media in the face of official media outlets. However, the content on these networks is not always alternative and often reflects the views of mainstream media and those in power. While the role and impact of these networks may differ in democratic and dictatorial countries, the increase in the ability of citizens to express their opinions, participate, and engage in public discourse, as described by Hab

Regarding the section on social media identity, how is it? It is about how people create an identity and persona on social media that is only present in that space, while having a different identity in the real world. Social media celebrities can be a prominent example of this.

Between the virtual world and the real world, it is not easy to draw a line and claim that a certain issue is only confined to the virtual network and does not have any reflection in social life. Social networks are a part of today’s society. They have even turned into a thriving market for buying and selling, commerce, marketing, providing services, and so on. However, not everything that happens in everyday reality is reflected in social networks, and not everything that is reflected in these networks has relevance in everyday life outside of this space.

Additionally, social networks play an important role in shaping or strengthening individual and collective identities in the era of expanding individualism. With the rise of individualism, the feeling of anonymity and lack of social identity has increased in the post-modern era, and even occupational identity is not always satisfying. In such conditions, social networks have increased the field for overcoming the void caused by loneliness and lack of identity through low-cost communication with distant people, and individuals can find friends, supporters, or audiences that they may never have had without it. As a result, social networks have become tools and spaces for individual and collective identity formation or strengthening; to the extent that individuals who are very isolated and alone or lacking extensive social connections in their daily lives can be so active and well-known on social networks that the number of their followers is sometimes unbelievable. In other words, each individual can find an audience and identity without necessarily being in contact with channels and corridors of power or the media. Of course, this type of

You mentioned a point about social networks as a tool for verbal violence and having negative aspects. Please tell me, are these social networks generators of verbal violence or do they elevate the existing verbal violence in society?

Both of us! The reason why we never use verbal violence on social networks is probably because we don’t consider it a part of our values; or maybe some people see it as a high social cost due to their public identity. However, the fact that many of these networks are used as a tool for verbal violence is a reflection of hidden violence in society, which social networks make it easier, cheaper and more widespread to express.

Today, research on digital violence is increasing. I mentioned that social networks, as tools for promoting democracy, have also become tools for promoting violence and perversion. The problem is not only that the use of verbal, sexual and psychological violence is easier and less troublesome with hidden and fake identities, but also that face-to-face conversations create a sense of shame that prevents certain words from being used; while in the virtual space, there is not much shame about it! In addition, digital violence is less likely to face heavy backlash, such as legal complaints. Thirdly,

Therefore, social networks are not just a medium that bring violence from the depths to the surface; they themselves create a space in which psychological, verbal, gender-based, sexual, racist, and other forms of violence can thrive and grow.

Some believe that social networks usually connect people among friends and acquaintances of an individual who are close to him/her, and such space causes people to be isolated from society’s events. In fact, individuals become trapped and caught in a circle of their surroundings, and are affected by a biased and delusional space. To what extent do you agree with this issue? To what extent is this possible or has it happened?

I know many people who do not have a presence on social networks or because they have direct and live relationships, they do not need to express their opinions on social networks, or they communicate with each other through tools such as telephone and Skype and exchange their opinions.

Furthermore, there are individuals in the field of politics and social activities in Iran who have influential roles. If we were to judge them solely through social media, we may make mistakes or the opposite. Sometimes, individuals have a false image of their influence and power on social media, which is not reflected in the real world. Moreover, social media can lead to self-absorption and narcissism, and can even act as a drug that not only numbs the pain and suffering of loneliness and restlessness, but can also be delusional. Many rely on their image on virtual social media and consider it parallel to their real situation.

You mentioned alternative media in previous sections. The question is, with the growth of social networks, can it be said that mainstream media such as radio, television, and newspapers are becoming less credible? How positively do you see this replacement? This question is asked because, in any case, individuals on social networks are less cohesive, accurate, and professionally-minded.

In the complex era of the “information revolution”, discovering the truth is not as simple as it seems. The information revolution has made the process of selecting news and information inevitable, with the production of a massive amount of information. This process has increased the feeling of uncertainty about accessing the “pure truth”. The abundance of information, research, media, news waves, and disclosures can sometimes confuse and doubt a person. The information age is also known as the “age of doubt and uncertainty”, as Giddens calls it. According to him, postmodernism is characterized by a high speed and expansion of information, which has made it difficult to distinguish between what is normal and what is abnormal, variable and uncertain. This has led to fluidity of the mind and relativization of beliefs, causing hesitation. The abundance of information – not only on social networks, but also in official media – depending on which media and network reflects what, can direct or change the mind of the audience. In the age

From a sociological perspective, the process of deepening democracy fundamentally involves the access and participation of citizens in considering and hearing the opinions of others and engaging in communicative actions. Social networks can play a significant role in this regard. However, the victories of Trump in the United States, Hitler in Nazi Germany, and Islamic fundamentalists in the elections of Algeria and Egypt are evidence that mass participation alone is not a guarantee for deepening democracy. In fact, it can sometimes lead to a threat against democracy through the spread of populism and the vulgarization of politics. The relationship between political elites and the masses is a complex one that is not the focus of this conversation. However, I wanted to mention that while social networks have a positive role in expanding democratic discourse and breaking the monopoly of power by elites, they can also greatly contribute to the spread of populism, degradation, vulgarity, extremism, brainwashing, and “truth-making.” One successful example of this “truth-making” was

It is impossible to imagine that the influence of social networks can be eliminated. Official media will never be able to replace these networks, but they may be forced under the pressure of social networks to give more attention to the voices of the “underdogs”.

Protests and numerous campaigns on social networks are happening regarding social events. In your opinion, how much do these protests reflect real social events and have a tangible impact on society?

First, social networks are a type of media. Second, in examining the function of media and its relationship with the needs and desires of the people, there are two perspectives: some believe that media is merely a tool or intermediary for reflecting social facts and realities, while others believe that media, alongside other ideological devices of power, is a machine for producing truth and shaping public opinion, constantly engaged in reconstructing reality, constructing its structure, and creating images. Supporters of the first theory reject the second interpretation, arguing that if media were to constantly lie and fabricate truth, and present their own opinions and imaginary data as truth to the people, they would ultimately face a decrease in reception and trust, and eventually lose their audience, as there would be a gap between these media and the public’s perception of reality. This argument carries a hidden assumption that simplifies the relationship between media and the people, and undermines the role and power of the audience in judging and influencing media. However, the belief that

In your opinion, during the past decade – and specifically after the events of 88 – to what extent have social networks helped strengthen civil society or facilitate and empower it?

We do not have accurate information in this area. Political suppression in Iran has increased the cost of establishing civil institutions in Iran. Additionally, many of these social networks in Iran are facing restrictions. There is no independent source to determine the extent to which these networks are effective in creating such institutions. However, social networks have brought the communication within and outside the country closer together; nevertheless, presenting imaginary images of desires, mentality, and realities of Iran by some users of these networks outside the country can undermine trust and reduce attention to social network users outside the country, especially for those who live inside the country. In the context of political obstruction, this gap can also expand. At the same time, those who have a more organic connection and a more vivid image of Iranian society can use these networks to raise awareness, share experiences, exchange ideas, and even organize civil institutions in the face of censorship. Social networks, by facilitating communication, provide the possibility of overcoming dispersion and can be a suitable tool for institution

As the final question, in your opinion and considering the changes that have occurred in social networks and the rise of mobile social networks such as Instagram and Telegram as replacements for traditional social networks like Facebook, what does this mean? Why do you think the government, despite filtering Facebook and Twitter in the past and continuing to do so, does not filter Telegram and Instagram?

In the latest report that I read, the study of books in Iran has one of the lowest rates in the world. Let’s ignore the fact that the pace and speed of our era is such that fewer people spend their free time with cheap books if it is not in their field of work; an inevitable matter that at the same time carries the danger of going from depth to surface. The mass production of “cultural industry” today poses a serious threat to intellectualism and social media also play a significant role in its prevalence; while at the same time, thanks to these social media and the digital revolution, many books are easily accessible to everyone. In any case, we first faced a decrease in the average rate of reading books and an increase in the volume of article reading in Persian, then the number of valuable articles on websites decreased; the situation is even worse on social media. That is, from multi-page articles on various websites, we have now come to short notes on Facebook, which

The fact that the government shows less sensitivity towards Instagram and Telegram may be due to their usage in Iran and their impact. However, on Facebook, there is more awareness and discussion compared to Instagram and Telegram. Just as today people listen to the radio less compared to watching television, they have also shifted from radio to television. In the realm of social media, it is possible to communicate more through images rather than words, and Instagram and Telegram have expanded the technical possibility of this exchange. It may be asked whether the government feels that serious data is less transmitted through networks like Instagram and Telegram in Iran, and therefore shows more leniency in censoring them. It must be said that today, a majority of opposition forces and websites use these networks to transmit news and opinions. A few days ago, I was present at a lecture by a Canadian professor who advised academic researchers to take Instagram seriously and learn to use it optimally to introduce themselves and transmit their data. Perhaps it is time for us to

Thank you for the opportunity you have given us.