Conversation with Shahyar Qanbari, about the art of protest these days.

Shahyar Ghanbari is a poet, composer, and singer. He has been involved in various forms of art in Iran, including filmmaking, for many years. He has a long list of unforgettable songs and poems, such as “The Scent of Good Wheat”, “Bread, Cheese, and Vegetables”, “The Head of the Painting Class”, “Unveiled Sun”, “The Lonely Man”, “Friday”, “Gray Week”, “Childish”, “Always Absent”, “Lala La La”, “The Children of Mahabad”, “Blue Lady”, “Migration”, “Back to Mehrabad”, “Word”, “Prayer”, and “Travelogue”. It can also be argued that some of his songs, such as “Qadghan”, were the beginning of a new era of protest music in contemporary Iran. In the aftermath of the nationwide protests following the death of Mahsa (Gina) Amini, we approached this renowned and unique artist

You can read the detailed interview of the monthly magazine “Khat-e-Solh” with Shahyar Qanbari below:

۵۷ تاکنون هیچ زمانی همچنین حجم وسیعی از آثار هنری در ایران به وجود نیامده است

“In the past two months, we have witnessed the production of many works of art in protest against the current conditions and in solidarity with the people; to the extent that it can be claimed that since the February 1979 Revolution, there has never been such a large volume of artistic works in Iran.”۸۹

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On this side, the production of this volume of unprecedented artistic works has been a protest. What do you think is the reason for it?

I do not intend to start the conversation with a negative word, but I do not believe that all of these works that you refer to are real and know what they are saying and doing. In order to have a proper understanding, especially in the field of protest and social songs, there must be an introduction. Work does not suddenly appear; meaning you cannot suddenly jump into social songs, but this reaction is a familiar one that has happened and friends do not want to be left behind.

The important thing is that if an artistic work is not good – meaning it does not have the correct message and energy that it should have – it will not have an impact and will be forgotten; meaning it will not come into existence, it will disappear and cease to exist. I think most of these songs are in such a state and have not come into existence, they have all ended.

But songs like “Baraye…” by Shervin Hajipour, works by Tomaj Salehi, and works by music students from various universities inside Iran have been sung, which seem to have been influential.

I did not mention the serious works that were influential, because when you refer to that volume, you have to look more closely. Which part? The part you are referring to is the right part of the work. In fact, the reason why Shervin’s work has fallen into this form that we see is because it was real and true; it was not a hook and was derived from people’s words and tweets, but the question here is whether with this embrace that has been opened for the song and the energy it has produced, will the song be lasting? I hope it can, but my experience says that at the beginning of the work, this is not predictable. Second, the conditions that a song must have in order to become eternal are something else; meaning that perhaps many people will live a lifetime and not have a song that has reached eternity.

How do you perceive the level of conceptualization and creativity in this section of artistic works produced in Iran?

I have not heard everything and I cannot judge about all of them. But the ones I have heard were mostly old and cliché songs; of course there may be some that I have not heard.

Let me give you an example. Mr. Behram Beyzaei suddenly became a lyricist. This is of course good and anyone can start from somewhere, but it’s not that simple. As I mentioned earlier, this requires an introduction and it’s not a sudden thing; so what happens is that what is written, because it’s not a song and doesn’t have the potential to become one, nothing happens to it. Most of the things I’ve heard fall into this category; meaning they have completely lifeless and powerless words that don’t become songs at all. Any text that cannot become a song. When we enter the world of art, it has its own rules. It doesn’t care about our current circumstances. In the world of art, a work must be recognized and valued as an artistic work.

This is about things I have heard. I now see taste and style in other places; for example, in posters and videos that are produced.

Some of the productions are inspired by old revolutionary artworks and anthems, such as “Barpa Khiz”. Why do you think these anthems and old artworks are being reproduced?

Going towards those songs has a terrifying memory, and listening to them does not produce happy memories. Most of the songs were revolutionary songs. We took Latin American music at that time and put bad Persian lyrics on it.

Now a new poem has been released in Iran on the song “Barpakhiz”.

I have not heard their new poem.

Let’s pursue the art of protest. Can we define two types of protest art and revolutionary art?

Good. When you put art aside from everything, you make your work difficult and challenging. If you want to ask me, a professional in this field, your question must be precise. We cannot speak in general terms about this matter, because it is an artistic issue.

The issue here is that the works that have been produced are recognized as protest works. On the other hand, the discussion of revolution is raised. I raised the question from this perspective.

I do not know revolutionary art. Art is either art, or it is not.

“And here, you are evaluating the art of protest based on its content; is that correct?”

Definitely. Every genre of music has this same state. You can use all genres of music, but the result and the fruit of it must be correct. Correct, meaning it should be sung with international standards and the standards that I, as a professional, know. Whether it’s in terms of lyrics, melody, arrangement, or everything else. A work that is arranged incorrectly from beginning to end is no longer worth evaluating.

After the coup of August 19, 1953, we had “Kiss Me” which was romantic and showed the heavy atmosphere of that time, or even a few decades ago, you wrote and performed the song “Ghazal” which also has a romantic theme. Both works were very popular in their time and even after. Can works of art that have a romantic theme and also have a sense of protest find a place in today’s society and be well received by the people?

Of course, of course, Qadghan is not necessarily romantic. Qadghan is the first protest song of those years.

But in response to your question, definitely. Love is the essence of life. This division into romantic and non-romantic seems futile and wrong to me, and in my opinion, it is not a professional division.

Today, we are faced with the slogan “Woman, Life, Freedom” and our discussion is also about a content-oriented view of artistic works. In your opinion, what content can be effective for today’s protest music for Iranian society?

I think we should listen to people well. We should pull out the root of the pain and work on it. This important event, this shedding of skin, this historical renaissance is full of cinematic moments and poetry. It is also dangerous, as it can easily become vulgar. In these years, I have heard songs where, for example, a singer with a lisp sings politically. Until you hear them, you won’t believe it has happened. It’s the same now. Until we take the matter and the work seriously, until the person doing it doesn’t learn and doesn’t know, that’s it. It’s not enough to just decide to become a composer from tomorrow. They must know the basics and go learn. First, they must learn this work. It’s not enough to use an application and copy others’ work to start something new.

Recently, a woman without permission has thought of a strange initiative; she has gone and changed the song “The Lonely Man” to “The Lonely Woman”: “There was a woman, a woman!” Well, this is a trivialization. For this poem, which is my poem, cannot enter this scene today. If you want to enter it, you have to think of something else. You have to add things to it. What I did with “childish”; but what this lady did is trivializing, because even if you perform it in the best way, it is still a woman talking about her misfortune. Today’s song is not at all like this. When you hear “lala la la, enough, tulip flower,” it lifts you up and doesn’t let you sit. Today’s song is not a funeral or funeral song at all. It is a strong and protesting song. A protest that is not only in words. The protest and anger that must ultimately lead

That lady who changed the song “Lonely Man”, later contacted me and I objected, and my objection continues. I do not want to get into the legal aspect, but it has to start somewhere. Tomorrow’s Iran must be a law-abiding Iranian.

Does that mean the authenticity of the work is important?

Definitely. The song “For…” by Shervin is for this reason, because it has remained and fallen into this form; it is not like any other song.

I also love your work as a rapper because it has authenticity.

The point of Shervin Hajipour and Tomaj Salehi, or music university students, is that they work with the text of the incident and experience that has been touched with flesh, skin, and blood. Do you think this point is important and what is the difference between these types of work and other work done, for example, outside of the country?

Let’s not get into the story inside and outside, but in some cases, it is clear that the difference between them is like night and day. That’s why for the poet, events inside can happen in one night. It is because of the space in which he lives and he himself is one of the characters in this story. When I write something, it’s exactly like getting on a plane and going to my favorite locations. I write there and come back. Emotionally and sensually, I always do the same thing.

Do you think artists have a responsibility to their community, or is art for art’s sake?

Art for the sake of art is great in advanced and prosperous lands, where censorship does not crush people’s minds from morning till night. It means the artist works to satisfy themselves. But in lands that lack these qualities, there is no father to provide bread and water, or there is no father at all because they have been killed or imprisoned. I don’t think art has a place for the sake of art in such a society, at least until reaching a point of light, happiness, freedom, and liberation. Until that point, I don’t believe art has a place for the sake of art in such a society. An artist who works specifically for such a land, a land full of suffering and seeking the bare minimum for a dignified and humane life, must see themselves on a mission. In recent weeks, I have seen some friends discover my work, because the day they heard it, they didn’t really hear it and didn’t understand it. Now they say how good those works

What does this phrase mean in the context of the mission and what factors is it dependent on?

To himself and his record and the grade that is expected to be received in his record and a human look at the land and homeland and its people. This is what makes the work difficult. The work must also be audible; it is not enough to just see oneself on a mission and write something serious and then have no one listen to it and not like it at all.

Given what you said about the commitment and mission of artists, why are there only a few artists in each period who remain loyal to this commitment to society?

The reason for this is that they did not reach what they wanted; meaning they say this foolish talk that, for example, they did so many good things, where did they get to? And because life is not right, they go and do something they don’t like. This happens more often. In recent years, many of our top stars have faced this problem outside of Iran; meaning it doesn’t matter if they go after a good job or a job that has a vacant spot, but because it is free, they go after it; as a result, they fell into these traps and unfortunately, one after another, they sang bad songs. Whether an artist is successful or not, they think about success. For this success – if they want to have a good reputation – they must sing, perform, or write seriously, professionally, and correctly. If they come for money and temporary fame or celebrity, their situation is clear and they will not get anywhere. There are two options: either

Do you see the difference between a celebrity and an artist in their commitment and sense of duty?

Exactly. This celebrity phenomenon that has taken over the world has trivialized art; it has taken away from and degraded art. It’s as if you don’t need any talent to be an artist; it’s enough to have superficial things like a pretty face or connections, and the person can become a celebrity. This celebrity then takes the place of the true artist who is struggling in a corner, perhaps feeling hopeless about themselves, their future, and everything else, and doesn’t allow them to rise.

Finally, if there are any points or issues left unsaid, please let me know.

Just as an artist must stand tall and know themselves on a constant mission, the people must also stand tall alongside the artist; it is not possible for only the artist to stand tall and move forward in society while the people do not stand tall behind them. Then they may think that their work was not right because no one is following them, but this is not the case. When a genuine and serious artist emerges, the listener must also fulfill their duties. We, as alert and awake listeners, also have responsibilities. We do not have deaf ears; we have ears that we have worked on. We have educated ears. First, we must educate our ears; we must turn them inside out, the opposite of what has been advertised for forty-four years. They have talked about cultural invasion and said that we must close ourselves off and build walls around us and not connect with the world. All of this has caused us harm and has increased the distance between us and the world of poetry, consciousness,

One thing that I have been seeing in videos lately – although it is natural for the moment and the person to be full of excitement and fear – is that if we know how to take these videos better, the result will be more effective. Therefore, in any field, if we have enough and at least basic education, for example when taking photos, if the person knows the frame and the things they should pay attention to, the result will be better.

One of the tasks that serious artists must do is to see where they can help. I myself tweet every day and post a lot of tweets. Unfortunately, I don’t see any of my colleagues. Gradually, all the artists who claim to be outside the country and have the power and influence of words, fame, and reputation, must come to the field to do something positive. This is where everyone should see themselves on a mission. The mission is not to gather four people and record a bad work and think that because it has multiple voices, it is a significant social work.

The question is, how can I be my best self as a human in 2022? The words of children in Iran are the same, that I want to live and be better than this. The most beautiful words have been said by the great Albert Camus, that freedom is nothing but an opportunity to improve. In my belief, this opportunity has been taken away from everyone for forty-four years. We want to become better versions of ourselves; that’s it!

Thank you for the time you have given us in the monthly magazine of the Peace Line.