This is a picture of a beautiful flower.
Ali Kalai

Hossein Zaman, born in 1338, is a pop singer, cultural and artistic activist, and a university lecturer at higher education institutions. He is also someone who was active in revolutionary activities before the revolution and during his early years of youth, was arrested and expelled from university, and later traveled to the United States to continue his studies. However, with the start of the Iran-Iraq war, he returned to Iran and joined the ranks of soldiers in this war.

Hossein still has concerns about the music industry today, even after a decade and a half of being banned from working. He has some pieces ready for release, but due to his approach and thoughts, he is not allowed to work and in an interview he says, “I imagine that orders have been given from above for security and intelligence forces to stop my work.”

In this issue of the peace line, we are in conversation with Mr. Zaman regarding the issue of music in Iran and the prevention and cancellation of concerts. Mr. Zaman, in this conversation, while looking at the history of music after the victory of the revolution, says that the issue of music in Iran has turned into a political issue. He also believes that there is “no proper and clear basis or criterion” for this field in shaping the current government in Iran.

This pop singer, while accepting the idea that the two political fronts are in conflict with each other, says: “Music in Iran is a victim, and every official and institution is playing their own instrument.”

Why did the attitude towards music become pessimistic and many restrictions were imposed on it during the post-revolution era? Is this issue related to the position of music and its history before the revolution and the track record of previous artists, or do you attribute it to another issue?

It is believed that various factors were involved in this matter. Of course, immediately after the revolution, most of the people who opposed music were those who considered it against Islamic and religious values and deemed it forbidden. Those who did not explicitly say it was forbidden did not have the courage to approach it and in a way, distanced themselves from the issue. This group was also present among cultural and artistic officials or in radio and television. For this reason, the presence of these individuals caused music to be restricted and not allowed to reach the people. As we moved forward and the atmosphere became slightly more open, limited styles of music were introduced and entered society, mainly in the form of revolutionary songs or songs created during the war.

But from the year 74-75 (as far as I remember), me and the others who entered this field, tried to revive pop music which had been completely abandoned after the revolution. In this regard, besides the fact that the previous group stood against this movement, another spectrum was added to the opposition; they were the ones who feared the popularity of musicians. The reason was that the attention of the youth was drawn towards music and the fact that artists could somehow influence the thoughts of the youth and become a powerful force in society was not pleasing to them. Of course, such fears may exist to some extent in other parts of the world as well, but in Iran it showed itself in an extreme way and this is what caused the opposition to grow. Of course, these two opposing thoughts still exist in our country.

The bold part of pop music after the revolution – especially with the start of the 30s – which also has a license, is even more lively and cheerful in terms of rhythm and music than the music outside of Iran – which is referred to as unauthorized music. How do you think it is still possible to consider a part of this music unauthorized in such an atmosphere? What is the difference and criteria for determining these types of music for decision-making bodies?

There are different opinions about whether music is permissible or not. No one has actually set a criterion for it. Those who declare music as forbidden based on religious grounds argue that in Islam, “ghina” (singing) is forbidden and they interpret it as any music that takes the listener out of their senses (or other interpretations they use). Therefore, some believe that all types of music fall under the ruling of “ghina” and do not impose any restrictions on it. Some take a more logical approach and leave the decision to the individual; meaning that if someone feels that they are being taken out of their natural state while listening to a certain music, they should not listen to it and do not see any problem with listening to it otherwise.

In any case, in our country, a group of people have a political view towards music like other matters. If they have opposition or agreement with a certain type of music, it is accompanied by a political perspective. As I mentioned, there is no correct and specific criteria. For example, the radio and television, as a medium whose duty is to spread art and introduce people to music, has its own specific limitations and the individuals in that organization determine what music is good or bad. In fact, they themselves are the ones who determine whether a certain music, even with a license, complies with Islamic criteria or not, and do not leave the matter to the people. Many times, when we submitted our works for broadcasting to the radio and television, we faced situations where they allowed the broadcasting of works that, in our opinion as music lovers, were not very justifiable. And on the other hand, sometimes they would prevent the broadcasting of works that were justifiable in every aspect. This

But regarding the Ministry of Guidance, the issue is that this department has been paying more attention in the past 15-16 years to the potential reactions of certain individuals if they were to grant permission. This means that they do not restrict themselves too much, but rather are more concerned about whether, for example, religious scholars will object to a certain type of music or if a certain Friday prayer leader will speak out against it or not. In fact, their criteria has not been the type of music, but rather these institutions.

I can confidently say that in our country, there has never been a clear and correct view towards music, and the main reason for music being in turmoil in Iran is that every official and institution plays their own instrument.

Despite offering various licensed types of music in Iran, we have witnessed a prevention of concerts being held in different cities, especially during the first government of Mr. Rouhani. The cancellation of a series of licensed music concerts, which the government had previously approved, created a political challenge. In your opinion, what is the reason behind these series of cancellations?

It can be said that 99% of the confrontations that have taken place at concerts in recent years have been political and have been carried out to undermine the government and show off power. In my opinion, for example in Mashhad, the reason why concerts are banned is to prove that the authorities are in control and despite the fact that the government issues permits for concerts, it is us who can allow or prevent their performance. In other cities as well, the prevention of concerts has mostly been carried out by intelligence, security, and military institutions, in a way to sabotage the government. Because Mr. Rouhani tried to make the atmosphere more desirable in terms of art, they have also interfered in this space and, for example, by creating restrictions and preventing artists from performing in the field of music, they are trying to show that this government is no different from others and to tarnish its image. Of course, I must also say that I do not fully support the government in this

So you agree that two political fronts are sacrificing music in conflict with each other?

In any case, since music has a large number of fans and audiences and has opened up in the hearts of young people, both sides can benefit from it. If the government can provide more space for musicians and allow them to perform, they can gain credibility for themselves while also being used by the people. On the other hand, if the opposing side can destroy this space, it can lead to a lack of credibility from the government’s perspective.

I must say that I agree with you; music has become a very powerful tool in their hands to fight together.

Dear Zaman, in your opinion, what impact does canceling concerts have on the growth and development of music in Iran?

It has a very significant impact. Currently, producing and releasing music albums is not very profitable and does not have any economic justification in the world. Even releasing a new album is used as a promotion for live performances. In fact, the main source of income for a musician to continue their work and develop and expand their art is through live performances and concerts. Therefore, canceling concerts has a major economic impact on musicians and disrupts their development. On the other hand, the best way to connect with the audience today is through live performances. In Iran, you can see a great reception for live performances and when some of our artists have 3-4 consecutive nights of performances, nearly two thousand people attend each show. These numbers clearly show how concerts are a great tool for finding an audience and maintaining a relationship with them. In my opinion, the soul and excellence of music are dependent on these live performances; for the artist to be able to come on stage with ease and tranquility and present

Is there a union or effective will for musicians to pursue their rights and damages?

Unfortunately, there is no institution that can seriously support artists. Such support is one of the main responsibilities of the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance, but even this ministry is unable to provide support. The Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance cannot even adhere to the permits it has issued and does not allow concerts to be cancelled; as a result, further support is not possible. Places like music and artist houses are more for show and have not made any specific moves in defense of musicians. This is while many of our veteran artists have become homebound due to illness and are seriously struggling with insurance and healthcare. I can say that musicians are in a very difficult situation and their conditions are such that they can easily be harmed.

Given the start of the twelfth government, do you have the optimism that this government will think strategically in the face of increased pressure on artists?

If they want to continue the same previous routine (which seems to be the case), then it’s certainly not good. In my opinion, Mr. Rouhani’s government in the first 4 years was not able to act as it should have, especially in regards to culture and art – particularly in relation to music. Of course, I understand that the conditions were difficult for them and those who stood against the government were using all their power. But my belief is that if efficient managers and those who are not inclined towards conservatism were placed in positions of power, they could have achieved better results or at least come closer to achieving them. In my opinion, their choice of ministers for the twelfth government is unfortunately not very hopeful; especially in regards to the Ministry of Guidance, which, based on the circumstances, will not be much better than the past.

Thank you for the opportunity you have given us in the Khatt-e-Solh magazine.