In this regard, peace talks have been held with Mr. Ardeshir Amirarjmand, senior advisor to Mr. Mir Hossein Mousavi and one of the prominent figures of the Green Movement. A candid conversation that can be seen as a reflection of the views of many activists in this movement…

With the arrival of Mr. Rouhani, many had hoped that the house arrest of Mr. Karroubi and Mr. Mousavi, as well as Ms. Rahnavard, would be lifted; but this did not happen. What do you think is the reason for this? Is this expectation fundamentally an expectation from the Rouhani government?

Waiting is definitely in place, as the government itself has promised and a large portion of those who participated in the elections voted with the intention of wanting to change the country’s situation. Changing the country’s situation must have signs, small and good partial actions, but there are issues that have a strategic aspect. If the country’s security space is supposed to change, its sign is the freedom of Ms. Rahnavard and Messrs. Karroubi and Mousavi. In any case, people demand a change in the political-security situation and Mr. Rouhani has promised to change it. If he fails in this regard, his other policies will not be successful either. Mr. Rouhani and his friends must have a heartfelt belief that foreign policy is also a continuation of domestic policy, and they will only succeed in nuclear negotiations if they show the international community that a change in approach has taken place in Iran. What has happened is strategic and must be built on trust, and of course,

Since the Rouhani government took office, the number of arrests and executions has increased. In Iran, there is a type of power balance; meaning that conservative and right-wing forces strongly resist change. What is your assessment of this trend? Will the situation improve in the short term and the blockade be lifted?

I do not want to make predictions in this regard and I prefer to have a positive mindset that Mr. Rouhani can fulfill his promises and electoral commitments. If we approach it from a negative perspective, it may not be as effective; if we create a feeling of “it’s impossible”, then no responsibility will arise.

In addition to executions, there is actually a movement in the country that tries to close the space and create the illusion that nothing has happened and no changes have occurred, despite the relative changes that have taken place. This is why individuals are still threatened and punished for writing an article on their blog or on various social networks. However, in contrast, as I mentioned, we must consider the positive side and say “it can” and “it should happen”.

Do you have accurate information about the current physical and mental condition of Ms. Rahnavard and Messrs. Mousavi and Karroubi?

First, let me say that these three individuals were in perfect health before being imprisoned and did not even have the usual problems that people their age usually have. However, gradually they developed different issues such as heart problems, high blood pressure, and pains in their legs, back, etc. These are all issues that have arisen under the pressure and conditions of imprisonment.

So, their physical conditions have changed and they are not in good shape, and a significant list of problems has arisen for them; Ms. Rahnavard has high blood pressure, Mr. Mousavi has heart and knee problems, Mr. Karoubi has osteoporosis and we also know that even his body’s vitamin levels are low in many cases, as well as having knee and back pain and digestive problems. These are certainly the responsibility of the prison guards, the prison guards who do not provide the necessary conditions. In prison, every prisoner has the minimum right to fresh air and sunlight. But Mr. Karoubi is completely deprived of sunlight and that is why these problems have occurred for him… But despite the physical pressure they have faced, their spirits are very strong and resilient.

Given the Islamic Republic’s history of dealing with prisoners, we have seen that many have been under pressure to appear on television and express regret from the 1990s until now. It has even been said that there is no longer any resistance. However, we have witnessed three individuals and some other prisoners who have once again committed a sin by resisting and did not express regret. This is the same resistance that many prisoners showed in the 1960s and refused to appear on television. What is your evaluation in light of the government’s public declaration of repentance and regret from these individuals?

See, what is repentance essentially? If someone has committed a sin or a crime, they can still repent morally…

But Mr. Amir Arjmand, in the Islamic Republic system, many people did not actually do what they confessed about and only did so under pressure and labeled certain issues…

Some may argue that it is necessary from an ethical standpoint for individuals to repent and confess their sins to others as a lesson, but repentance in situations where one has not committed a crime can even be unethical and can hide the truth. Ms. Rahnavard, Mr. Mousavi, and Mr. Karroubi have not committed any crimes and proudly stand by their positions without repenting. The gentlemen know Mr. Mousavi, are aware of Mr. Karroubi’s background, and are informed of Ms. Rahnavard’s honesty, and they know that none of them are inclined to repent. Essentially, to say that because you do not repent, we will not release you, is like running forward and throwing the ball to the other team’s field. Mr. Jannati should repent, Mr. Moslehi and other high-ranking security officials and authorities of the country should repent for the injustice they have inflicted upon these individuals, society, and the people of Iran

They do not repent for the crime that has not been committed, and Mr. Karoubi, Mr. Moussavi, Karoubi and Mrs. Rahnavard are in a situation where they have stood firmly with complete determination, expressing their own point of view and openly stating that this is causing the Green Movement and all the people of Iran to rise up.

On the other hand, I believe that Ms. Rahnavard, Mr. Mousavi, and Mr. Karroubi acted completely moderate and never crossed the line of moderation, and they stood firmly and steadfastly on this path. This does not mean rushing or slowing down; in any case, the steadfastness of the leaders of a popular movement was in response to the demands and desires of the people of Iran, and these individuals responded to the historical demands of the people. The people had asked them to stand firm on their positions and demand their rights…

Do you know if they have put pressure on them to publicly show repentance and remorse, in order to display it to the public?

“See, in any case, this whole process that is happening is pressure. For three years now, the entire country’s advertising organization has been continuously mobilized to accuse, slander, and defame individuals and put pressure on their families. Look at the baseless and unfounded statements made by authorities, including Mr. Jannati, the Revolutionary Guards, and others; what are these? It’s all to put them under pressure. I believe the greatest injustice that is happening is that some people are placed in a position where others can say whatever they want to them without the possibility of them being heard. Well, these are very bad conditions and have been imposed on Ms. Rahnavard and Messrs. Karroubi and Mousavi for a long time now.”

Do security forces live inside the house on a daily basis or do they only control the outside of the house? However, can you say how their daily life goes, including eating, resting, studying, or accessing their news during the siege? Are they in their own personal homes or are they kept in security houses?

In the beginning, when Mrs. Rahnavard and Mr. Musavi were put under house arrest, security forces moved into their personal home. They had attached a house to Mr. Musavi’s home and made it their headquarters, while also living in their house. They forced them to go to the upper floor of the house, which was not used at all. They even removed the doorknobs so that there were no locked doors and they could enter any part of the house or even the rooms whenever they wanted. They completely destroyed their privacy and this situation lasted for a long time. In addition, to prevent any light from entering the house, they had covered all the windows with metal sheets… It has been repeatedly reported that they were deprived of newspapers and any kind of news for a long time. Later, they were allowed to watch a few TV channels that were chosen by themselves. It should be noted that it has been repeatedly reported that Mr. Musavi saw the dream of

But Mr. Karoubi is being kept under house arrest, is that correct?

Yes, Mr. Karoubi was always kept in a house that was not his own, and keep in mind that he also had to pay for the cost of the prison; this is, in any case, a strange thing…

Do you know about Mr. Karoubi, whether the security forces were inside or outside the house?

See, there were three units in relation to Mr. Karoubi’s place of confinement, one of which was occupied by security forces, one for Mr. Karoubi himself, and the other one was empty. In any case, Mr. Karoubi’s situation was the same; if I’m not mistaken, they could enter his house whenever they wanted. As for removing the locks, the situation was similar and there was no privacy.

Do you know what Ms. Rahnavard and Mr. Mousavi’s opinion is about the effectiveness of Mr. Rouhani’s government?

The things that should be said, they said themselves; but in any case, what we can say is that they look at the changes that have been made with a positive view. In any case, people voted and their vote was for change, meaning they were saying they did not like what was happening.

What is the situation for family visits? Did they have limited access to using the phone?

No, if they wanted to make a phone call, it wasn’t possible. However, they were allowed to talk on the phone with some family members and daughters a few times, but they didn’t have permission to have a phone at all. In fact, they have no means of communication with the outside world. The only way to communicate was when they had a meeting or the few times I mentioned they were able to use the phone to contact their children. Recently, there has been a promise to have phone calls, but it hasn’t been put into action yet. The meetings have also been irregular and sometimes it has been more than three months since the children had any news from their parents. This situation creates a difficult and challenging situation. Now, after the elections and the changes that have taken place, this issue has been somewhat improved and weekly meetings are now taking place. This is something that should be mentioned.

In these weekly meetings, are security forces still present?

Security forces are always present and eavesdropping is a constant routine.

How were the security forces’ behavior after the incident with their daughter? Did they apologize later or did their behavior get worse?

Apparently, at present, the behavior has returned to before the incident, meaning that in reality, the behaviors were not like that and no specific problem has arisen in this regard again…

The United Nations human rights reporters have repeatedly called for the lifting of the house arrest of Ms. Rahnavard and Mr. Mousavi and Karroubi. Mr. Ahmed Shaheed, the UN special reporter, has also mentioned this issue in prominent sections of his reports. Do you think these kinds of pressures can help improve their situation?

One point must be considered at the outset: the international community has special mechanisms to advance its goals regarding human rights. These mechanisms are only marginally effective, which is a result of the structure of the international community. Therefore, in many cases, the decisions made by the international community regarding human rights may not have sufficient enforcement guarantees. This is not only true for Iran, and not only in relation to Ms. Rahnavard, Mr. Mousavi, and Mr. Karroubi, but what is important is that we must pay attention to the fact that in every country, the protection of human rights and the rights of citizens must first and foremost be the responsibility of the government and the authorities. When they fail to do so or are themselves in violation of these rights, the international community is forced to intervene and take measures to compel and guide governments to respect human rights. This is also the case for other human rights violations in Iran… Well, these resolutions have international impact and have psychological

Do you think there is overall public support for these three individuals?

Definitely, there is no doubt in this matter. This is actually one of the points that causes unnecessary fear among authorities in the country who are interested in having control over all security matters. They know that these individuals have a lot of popularity in society and have a large following. However, currently this support is not very socially visible due to the suppression that is taking place. Unfortunately, officials claim that they are always in line with the majority and always speak on behalf of the people, while on the other hand, they accuse the people of sedition, crime, and strange and baseless claims. In my opinion, the main injustice is being done to the people of Iran, as they are being placed in a position where their voices are not heard and they are being accused of things they do not agree with. In short, those who claim to speak on behalf of the people, if they have the courage to allow the people to speak freely, it will become clear how much support Ms.

What is the main demand of Mrs. Rahnavard and Mr. Mousavi? Are they requesting a public trial?

First of all, they are also demanding the people’s rights there, but the important point is that these three individuals are prisoners and must be freed. Someone who has been imprisoned without any legal process and is essentially being held hostage, must be released. Their demand is for the recognition of their rights and whether those who accuse them of a crime have held a trial and gone through the legal process.

See, when they didn’t commit a crime, they should be immediately released. But if anyone claims that there was a crime, if a public trial and the possibility of a fair trial is held, no one will escape from it. The gentlemen know that they are losers in such trials; of course, they may find some judges who will rule according to their opinions, but in the eyes of the public and in the face of history, they will be losers and this worries them. Again, I want to tell you that in fact, their freedom is beneficial to everyone, even to these gentlemen. These three people have the support of a great popular movement, but they never wanted to cause chaos in society. This freedom does not endanger the security of the country in any way, not even from the narrow perspective of these gentlemen, but it also strengthens it. Imprisonment and continued imprisonment is actually a completely illogical move that harms themselves.

This story is similar to a nuclear story. For a long time, we used to say that the country is in crisis, then we said it’s in a deadlock. This deadlock is also like a swamp; gentlemen are moving in a deadlock that pulls them inside, while the high authorities of the country clearly stated that it’s neither a crisis nor a deadlock. But now they have accepted this crisis and deadlock and can’t get out of it. It’s not clear why they insist on the wrong path to this extent. The issue of siege is also the same, they have put themselves in a deadlock, and the best, healthiest, and most cost-effective way out is the freedom without any conditions.

In your opinion, how long will the blockade continue and what are the conditions for lifting it? Has the government stated what the conditions for lifting the blockade are? What needs to be done to lift the blockade and to what extent do you see positive signs in this regard and are you optimistic?

No special letter has been written, but it is said naturally that they should repent, which is a meaningless letter and does not happen. As I said, it is necessary for gentlemen to have the courage to make the right decision, to take the cheapest way, which is also in their own interest, and to make it happen without any headaches and as soon as possible; because the longer time passes, the more problems will arise for gentlemen. We have information and based on that we know that many high-ranking officials of the country, including Mr. Hashemi, Mr. Khatami, Mr. Seyed Hassan Khomeini, some members of the government, some ministers and advisors close to Mr. Rouhani, Mr. Shamkhani and others, are inclined to make this happen and are trying in this direction, which in itself is a cause for optimism. But on the other hand, we see that there are power centers, whether in the judiciary, in the security and intelligence forces

We thank you for the opportunity you have given us in the monthly magazine of the Peace Line.