In a progressive conversation, “Morteza Pedarian Jooni”, a university professor, PhD in sociology, and editor-in-chief and owner of the weekly magazine “Tandar”, discusses one of the most controversial forms of punishment in Iran, which is execution, from a sociological perspective. His analysis shows that the real function of execution, contrary to popular belief, is not to deter crime, but rather to display power and create fear in society. In this framework, harsh punishments not only do not prevent repeat offenses, but also only target the “disabled” by ignoring the underlying causes of criminal behavior. The interview refers to three major types of executions in Iran: those resulting from “individual or personal” actions, “political” actions, and “religious” actions, as well as the role of public opinion in reconsidering this punishment. Finally, this conversation emphasizes a gradual transformation at the level of collective consciousness in society: a transformation that can make the path to abolishing the death

You will read the explanation of the peace talks with this sociologist in the following.

 

It has been a long time that the issue of execution has been one of the most controversial discussions among Iranian sociologists, with conflicting views.

In this regard.

There is a relationship between international law and the laws of Iran. Let us first ask for your general opinion on the subject before we ask other questions.

A very important point is that “punishment” generally happens for what reason? In order to have order in society and be able to control it. Now we have an official control, an unofficial control, an external control, and an internal one. All four of these controls are carried out to comply with social norms and soft laws. That is, in order for you to be able to implement your own social norms in society and for social actors to adhere to these norms and soft laws. These four controls are set up for the collective life of humanity. Official controls, which mainly occur through the structure of government, and external controls, which are also carried out by governmental institutions, have an effectiveness and impact of 10 to 15 percent in reducing abnormalities, damages, and social issues. So if we consider execution as a tool to reduce social abnormalities, the level of impact it can have on the behavior of social actors is influenced by this formula and can reduce 10 to 15 percent of

 

What is the reason for the continued implementation of this punishment, given that it is known to have little to no deterrent effect?

There are several discussions that can be raised in this regard. One of them is from the perspective of a ruling authority, where a type of fear, terror and horror is created in society so that people know that there is a government and this government uses the tool of execution, which is at its disposal, to enforce its laws. In my opinion, one of the main reasons is the creation of fear in society. Despite the fact that sociologists have stated that it not only does not lead to a decrease in behaviors for which the death penalty is considered, but it has also increased it. Look at how much immorality and murder occurs in our society. Has the rate decreased or increased? Therefore, one of the reasons is the creation of fear in society. The second reason is for the government to instill in people the idea that we are controlling deviant social behaviors with the harshest punishments.

 

This road has been experienced in the early years after the victory of the revolution. Mr. Kholkhal and those widespread executions…

This is exactly it. I have always brought up this issue in discussions about social harms, whether executing smugglers, executing addicts has reduced or increased their prevalence in our society. If it has increased, then it shows that these punishments have not been able to prevent and deter deviant social behaviors. Therefore, we need to change our approach towards dealing with social deviances. The most important role we can play in this change of approach is to focus on the underlying causes and factors that lead to these behaviors for which the death penalty is considered. We need to eliminate the independent variables and causes that contribute to the formation of such behaviors. An addict, a smuggler, a murderer, a rapist, or a thief, they are all disabled. If the main causes are identified, they will automatically be eliminated. This means that if you eliminate the independent variables and causes, the dependent variables and disabilities will also be eliminated.

 

However, a part of this issue is related to public opinion. For example, in the early days of the revolution, public opinion sometimes demanded and welcomed executions. Now, do you think public opinion has come to the conclusion that executions are not effective?

In my opinion, our first revolution was in support of executions due to the unawareness we had of social conditions and knowledge. This support was not a wise and conscious support from the society, nor was it the perspective of knowledgeable people. By “knowledgeable people,” I do not mean individuals, but rather those who possess knowledge and awareness in society, and that collective wisdom of our society was not seeking true understanding. Mainly, the public opinion of our society was directed and organized by norm-setters during the revolution, who had control over mass media, tribunes, and norm-setter agents. This means that even if correct information reached the society through appropriate channels, there would not have been a positive reaction towards this phenomenon. In my opinion, during the revolution, we were facing a type of unawareness and direction of public opinion by norm-setters, mass media, and tribunes, who were moving in support of these executions. However, now, with the expansion of mass media and

 

Now, in your opinion, can it be said that the Iranian society, with the presence of social networks and widespread communications, is against issuing and implementing death sentences?

It has come to the point where execution is not a solution and cannot serve as a means to control or reduce behaviors that are met with the punishment of execution, to have a deterrent effect.

“When the general public of a society protests and does not accept executions, the situation becomes different. In societies where (although it is not really the case anymore), executions are displayed in public and people gather to watch without showing any reaction, this society is still not at a level of awareness where mass media and norms have been able to bring people to the level of awareness where taking a human life is not a spectacle or cause for celebration.”

 

You wanted to categorize different types of executions.

Executions resulting from political behaviors and actions, stemming from ideological actions that are labeled as “apostasy” under the rule, and executions resulting from individual murders and personal conflicts. Let’s break it down into three categories: executions resulting from political actions, executions resulting from religious (ideological and ideological) actions, and executions resulting from individual actions. These three types of executions exist and have existed in all governments around the world. Especially the second type, which is executions based on religious and ideological beliefs, occurs more frequently in Abrahamic religious societies. In non-Abrahamic religious societies, we see this issue less, but it still exists. Because when there is an ideological system in place, individuals who oppose the ruling structure are automatically labeled as “apostates,” “infidels,” and “heretics,” and are considered deserving of execution. There are two categories of executions specific to the ruling government: political executions and religious and ideological executions. The third category, which includes

 

The prevention of these executions (related to murder) is in order to prevent the repetition of the defined crime, as you mentioned, is a place of doubt.

In my opinion, yes. From a scientific perspective, when we enter the field of social harms and study parasocial behaviors, external control has the same level of impact in reducing abnormalities and criminal behaviors as I previously mentioned, based on our studies.

 

In the discussion of ideological executions, do you think public opinion can be a barrier?

If public opinions are mobilized and show negative reactions towards them, it can definitely have an impact.

 

What is the ruling of Islamic law?

In the TV series “Sarbedaran”, Judge Shahr asked: What does the law dictate? He said: Whatever the ruler commands. Two weeks ago, Mr. Ahmadinejad brought a verse from the Quran that negotiating with America means negotiating with the devil, and yesterday he brought a verse that negotiating is actually very good.

 

Do you think religion is a tool?

It is a tool.

 

The ruling mentioned in the Quran cannot be changed and this is impossible.

Yes. But saying sorry and forgiving is better.

 

But he cannot cancel or turn into eternal imprisonment and say it is what the public wants!

“When we say that the authorities have not acted well and have not guided society in the right direction, this is exactly it. The punishment for murder is execution, but…but forgiveness is much better. Now if this message reaches the public and guides them in this direction, what will happen?”

 

Here, forgiveness is commonly given to homeowners, but in cases of drug-related executions or organized crimes like the mafia, who should be forgiven?

I have mentioned before that drug traffickers or mafia members are a result of the same causes and they are just victims.

As long as the independent variables and causes remain in place, fighting and eliminating the disabled will have no impact on reducing social harms. Let’s accept this first, then move forward. So what is the result of this execution? Does it decrease or increase social harms and drug trafficking? In the years when the death sentence was issued everywhere in Khalkhal, did drug consumption decrease or increase? If it has increased, then it shows that we have gone the wrong way, it’s very simple…

 

In your previous remarks, you mentioned the cleansing of sins and crimes after execution. Usually, before carrying out the death sentence, prayers are recited and forgiveness is sought for the condemned. Do you think this is to legitimize the execution or does it have a symbolic and cultural aspect? You stated that someone who is executed is actually being punished and dies as a martyr.

In the field of social activism, we have a discussion under the title of “rituals” which are customs and traditions that you must perform for a certain action. Such as the rituals of marriage proposal or the tasks that are done for someone’s death, from washing and burial to the end of mourning and commemoration ceremony. Execution also has a series of rituals, or rituals for the release of prisoners or quitting addiction. Execution also has rituals, but these rituals can also change, they can be present or absent. It is not necessary.

 

What is your prediction about the situation of issuing death sentences in Iran and where it will lead? Do you think there is potential in the Iranian society to prevent the execution of these sentences and ultimately change the laws?

Our society is in the process of reaching higher levels of awareness and in some cases, particularly in ideological and religious executions, it is showing resistance and forcing the government to step back and reconsider. There is a possibility that this situation may have a positive outcome for the people. Today, if you gather in family or friendly gatherings, people do not discuss religious actions with each other, but they accept that the other person may be an unbeliever or a believer in God. This disbelief or belief in God does not lead to conflict and tension between the two individuals. In other words, we are reaching a level of tolerance where we can easily accept and coexist with different and even opposing beliefs. Unlike the past, where if someone criticized the Quran or the infallible Imams, they would immediately be considered an apostate and even face removal, this issue is no longer widely discussed in our society. The religious and ideological tolerance in our society has greatly changed and shows that we no longer need to eliminate

 

So be optimistic.

I am happy because the level of collective wisdom in society has increased, not because of any ruling. Collective wisdom and awareness have grown to levels where we can believe in God and continue living alongside a non-believer. My journey to heaven or hell is my own and this gradual settling in society is not meant for me to forcefully take anyone to heaven with me. I have no such duties.

 

Thank you for giving me access to the peace line since I have been in possession of it.