Sadegheh Vasmaghi is one of the prominent figures in religious thought in Iran, who has also entered the field of activities related to participation in Islamic councils in cities and villages. This religious scholar, who holds a PhD in jurisprudence and principles of Islamic law, ran for the first term of Tehran City Council and was elected by the people. The spokesperson of the first term of Tehran City Council has collected his experiences and notes in a book titled “There is Definitely a Way” which was published by Khavaran Publications in Paris in 2014.

The peace line in the interview with this former member of the Tehran City Council, focused on the performance of the first Tehran City Council and asked about the effectiveness of this council, and sought the opinions of Dr. Sadegheh Vasmaghi regarding the problems of supervision in the City Council and solutions and mechanisms for improving it.

Mrs. Vasmeqi, considering your previous experience in the first city council, how do you evaluate your performance during that period? Will your evaluation be positive?

To evaluate the performance of the first term council, many issues must be taken into consideration. For example, the first council was inexperienced and was formed under conditions where a part of the ruling power was not in favor of forming councils. Nevertheless, the reform movement had just begun, there was a lot of political tension in the country, and the conditions were not calm (although this unrest and tension has been present in Iran for about 38 years and we have never reached a stable condition). Additionally, the members of the Tehran City Council were mostly political, the Tehran municipality faced difficult and unfavorable conditions, and it was during this time that Mr. Karbaschi and many other district mayors of Tehran were arrested or on trial by the prosecution.

But if I want to have a general summary, this performance was not in a way that would reflect positively on the performance of the first term council. Of course, considering the issues and events that were inside the council – and I am aware of them – and the efforts that the members went through during that term, it is difficult for me to give a definite answer. However, at the same time, I cannot have a positive evaluation and say that the council was successful. In order to say that the council’s performance was positive, we need to see the result; for example, we need to see if Tehran has been managed better than before. Only then can we claim that the city councils – whether the first council or subsequent terms – have been successful, and we can prove that the city has been managed better with the presence of the city council. Proving this issue also requires a series of statistics, figures, and studies, but I do not have such a claim.

It seems that your overall approach towards councils is not very positive. In light of this, when do you think this institution will reach its peak?

See, this institution in all of Iran can only thrive if people witness its impact and influence. This can only happen if members of councils make such a decision. Meaning, they truly have a plan to transform the management of cities in various ways and carry out fundamental and essential tasks. For example, they may want to simplify and streamline the administrative system of municipalities; they may want to make the administrative system of municipalities healthy and clean; they may want to make access to municipal services easier for citizens; or they may want to create changes – such as expanding green spaces – in cities. But unfortunately, neither in the Tehran City Council nor in the overall cities of the country, have I encountered such a transformation. This shows that council members still do not have a visionary mindset about city management. Furthermore, the position of city councils is either not recognized or has not yet been elevated; it is not in a way that council members can feel they have specific duties and responsibilities in this position.

Many believe that the city council, especially in Tehran, has not been successful and efficient in carrying out its supervisory duties since its formation. If you agree with this issue, what do you think is the reason?

See, there are various reasons for this. The city of Tehran is also somewhat different from other places. It is both the capital and has power and authority compared to the council of this city, which is not indifferent and from the beginning, there have been interventions from various regions in the council. On the other hand – as I mentioned – the duties of the councils are not clear and the councils do not have proper supervisory structures.

In my opinion, first and foremost, we need to redefine the issue of supervision in the country. For supervision, a proper system must be defined. It is wrong for individuals to want to personally supervise and define the method of supervision themselves. For example, when we as members of the first council entered the council, we felt that the municipality should be accountable to us in all matters and, as the saying goes, we could do whatever we wanted with the municipality. Well, what was the difference between us – as members of the city council – and the mayor or the municipality managers that we had the authority to supervise them? We need to change supervision from “individuals and individuals supervising the administrative system” to a “systematic supervision”. We need to systematize. Otherwise, we cannot have proper supervision and the institutions will not be supervised. This problem exists throughout Iran. For example, the most important responsibility of the parliament is to supervise all institutions and organs of the country, but

As someone who has experienced being in this scene and dealing with its challenges, what is your proposed solution and mechanism for addressing these ambiguities and deficiencies – which are largely, as you mentioned, based on the Councils Law?

As I mentioned to you, as the first step and in line with improving the oversight of both the city council and the parliament over the country’s institutions, information must be transparent and systematized. As you can see, in Western countries, for example, the tax department has access to all information related to the individuals of that country, and this is a connected and continuous network; the banking system, the tax system, the administrative system, incomes, and everything is transparent and clear in the system and accessible to oversight institutions. Such a system does not exist in our country. If we do not do this, our oversight is essentially a waste of time. We were on the city council for four years, but until the end, we did not understand how many satellite companies the municipality has. I mean, even I did not understand how many companies have been formed around the municipality with the municipality’s budget and the people’s money in Tehran, what they do, and where their income goes;

Does the municipality itself not know that it is obligated to be accountable to you in this matter?

At first, I thought I was obligated, but the issue is that I am telling you this as a service! Well, wherever it is not in the interest of people, they don’t give information. We can’t get involved with individuals to obtain information. The system should give us information, not individuals. We don’t even know many companies that we should go to the CEO of that company, for example. Basically, there is no such system in the municipality that shows where its budget has been spent, how many companies are its subsidiaries, how much money they have, how much profit they make, and where this money is spent.

We have repeatedly proposed plans until the end of the term and told the mayor that he is obligated to bring the budget of the companies and approve it in the council, but this did not happen. Maybe many of these companies didn’t even respond to the mayor. When the workload is high, one person cannot do all of these tasks; and then we see that four years have passed and many of these tasks have not been completed. In today’s world, this method of work and supervision is wrong. Nowadays, with the use of computers, advanced programs can be prepared that make the work much easier.

I emphasize on this point that this event must take place in a unified manner and throughout the country. It is not possible for one part of the country’s management to want transparency, but other places do not. All administrative institutions of the country, from the leadership institution to the presidency, the judiciary, the parliament, councils, and municipalities, must systematically enter the phase of transparency based on a national determination and decision; so that in this way, both the widespread corruption in the country can be confronted and practical supervision can be exercised. Since lack of transparency makes supervision impossible, it increases the possibility of corruption. Wherever there is no transparency, there is corruption. And as you can see now, nowhere in our country is immune from this corruption.

Does the process of participation in council elections have a suitable process? Also, in your opinion, do people vote more for a candidate’s programs or for their political affiliation or even their fame in other areas in these elections?

The problem that exists is that unfortunately, both for the members of the councils and for the people, the issue of councils is still unclear and the effects and benefits of it are also ambiguous. People must be assured that councils are effective in managing the city. The prerequisite for this assurance is for councils to present their performance reports and prove that with the existence of such an institution, cities have been better managed. It is only then that we can ask people to participate. Of course, this does not mean that if councils cannot prove this, we should not have them. Rather, I suggest that a study be conducted in the country on this matter and if the result of such a study is that councils have not been successful in bringing about change in urban management, then a solution should be sought. We must look for a solution and a plan for councils to be effective in urban management and bring about transformation. However, I believe that there have been successes in rural areas and small towns. The main reason

It seems that women are more active and have a stronger presence as members in councils, unlike the Islamic Consultative Assembly. What do you think is the reason for this?

The total number of members in councils across the country is much higher compared to the number of members in the parliament. In the parliament, due to the limited number of members and a higher level of power among them, competition is very tight. On the other hand, the oversight of the Guardian Council is present there. The interference and influence of the Guardian Council and the government, due to the importance of the parliament, makes it difficult for women to succeed. However, the presence of women in councils and their success, just like men, shows that if there is no discrimination and interference from the government, women can easily enter positions of power.

It is said that sometimes members of parliament, especially in major cities, have a sense of competition with members of the city council. Is such a trend exist and what is your analysis of this issue?

In the first city council, there was no such feeling between us and the representatives of the parliament, and I actually have no experience with this. But if there is such a thing, in my opinion, it is because the responsibilities are not clear and transparent, and therefore they interfere in each other’s work. In fact, it is possible that, for example, a member of parliament may feel that they have authority in an area that is not related to them, or vice versa.

Thank you for the opportunity you have given us.