Dr. Naser Karami is a climatologist and one of the most renowned researchers, writers, and journalists in the field of environment. In recent years, Dr. Karami has been able to draw significant attention to environmental issues in Iran through his efforts in publishing news and articles. He has also authored the best-selling book “Iran Pathfinder” which describes the geography of Iran.

Naser Karami, who is currently teaching at the University of Bergen in Norway, calls the drought the biggest environmental crisis in Iran in an interview with Khat-e-Solh. He says, “We are turning into Somalia! A barren and endless desert with hungry and displaced people!”

We read this conversation together, which is mostly focused on wildlife.

Mr. Karami, Iranian environmentalists are struggling with many problems. In brief, what are the main issues they face?

In my opinion, being an environmental protector in Iran is a job that is kept at a very low level, and this low level is due to three reasons: one is the salary; meaning the compensation they receive for their work as environmental protectors is among the lowest in Iran, and in my belief, it’s not even one-third of the minimum they should receive. For a job where individuals spend consecutive days away from their families and in the toughest conditions in nature, and more importantly, are at risk of being killed or even facing execution, their basic needs should be met and provided for. Therefore, the salary for an ordinary environmental protector should be at least three million tomans per month. However, the current salary for environmental protectors is around one million tomans, or even less, meaning they only receive one-third of their actual compensation. It’s only natural that someone who receives one-third of their actual salary is not satisfied and stable in their job. The second problem is that unfortunately

This collection of factors makes being an environmentalist a difficult and challenging job in Iran, resulting in low productivity. Every time I spoke with environmentalists, they always wished to become a group leader or a second-degree officer, which was their ultimate desire…

Masoumeh Ebtikar had previously encouraged the environment protectors in a video message to continue their work despite all the difficulties. In your opinion, how reasonable is this expectation and to what extent is it possible for the environment protectors to remain faithful to their mission and continue their work in such conditions, which you have described well?

Well, encouraging won’t solve any problems; in my opinion, until we at least triple the salaries of environmental guards, as I mentioned, nothing will change. In fact, as long as we can’t do anything in this area, we shouldn’t expect anything from the guard. The guard who is supposed to stay in the desert for a week in the worst conditions and not see his family, and the wage he receives is not even equal to the cost of renting an apartment, and he is really ashamed of his wife and children in terms of providing for their living expenses; with our encouragements and slogans, we cannot provide bread and water for him. My emphasis is on tripling what they currently receive. Currently, the salaries of environmental guards range from 600-700 thousand tomans to 1 million and 300-400 thousand tomans. Someone with 25 years of experience as an environmental guard and valuable information such as complete supervision of the area and knowing each animal by name,

A few days ago, news was published by an Iranian environmental and wildlife observer that the fourteenth Iranian leopard was killed and its body was stuffed. This is happening while environmental officials have not yet reported on this matter and have not taken a stance on it. Do you know the reason for this?

See, we need to separate two subjects from each other; one is about the reality of life in Iran’s wildlife and the other is about Iran’s Environmental Protection Organization. The Environmental Protection Organization of Iran has the ability to manage only 10% of the country’s area – the same 4 protected areas. In the best conditions, if the number of its stations is increased five times and the number of its environmental guards is tripled – which is almost impossible – they can only manage 10% of the country’s nature well. The other 90% is completely out of their hands. Regarding this 90%, 10% is coasts, cities, villages, and areas that are human-made and manipulated by humans, and 80% are forests, pastures, deserts, and mountains, which are under the control of the Forest and Pasture Organization and the Environmental Protection Organization has no control or management over them.

Regarding the story of panthers, not all panthers mentioned in the four mentioned regions are present, many of them are in free areas. Another point is that in Iran, among the large felines, the panther is an animal that has been less endangered. Because the panther, due to its special nature and character, can adapt to environmental conditions more than tigers and leopards, it has a series of morals and behaviors similar to dogs and foxes, which makes it easier for it to adapt. But the fact that panthers are constantly being killed on the side of the road shows that sensitive areas and main habitats of panthers are being occupied by humans, and humans are going to more remote natural areas, leaving no safe place for panthers; it wanders and reaches the edge of the road, city, and village. Ordinary people, because they have no information or knowledge, kill it. Even in newspapers, they still write that “a wild panther was killed

Of course, it’s not that the Iranian leopard is outside the scope of the responsibilities of the Environmental Protection Organization; this organization has direct responsibility for the leopard, but the Environmental Protection Organization is heavily involved in its own internal issues. You see, tripling the number of environmental guards means 1000 new employees for the government. Or tripling the salaries of environmental guards means a new expense for the government. So until these problems are solved, nothing can be done. The current and previous officials are well aware of these issues…

The Environmental Organization primarily issues hunting licenses for what individuals? Essentially, what restrictions does this license include?

I am not in favor of hunting, I consider it an undesirable act and have never engaged in it in my life. However, the problem of environmental issues and wildlife in Iran is not due to legal hunting and permits issued by the environment. We should not waste our time on this issue. The environmental problem in Iran is the result of one million illegal guns in the hands of people. These illegal guns are not owned by university professors, students, or journalists, but rather by those who happen to be living in the same nature and see an Iranian yellow deer, a rare and endangered species, as a 30-40 kilogram piece of meat that needs to be stopped and transferred to the refrigerator. For these individuals, animals are divided into two categories: halal meat and haram meat, and they do not care about biodiversity and endangered species. One million people have guns and wherever they see an animal, they shoot it; that is our problem. We have not been able to solve these

With this account, we actually have one million illegal hunters! Is there any way for the environmental protection organization to deal with such a large population?

One million and nine; I think out of the 75 million population of Iran, 74 million and 595 thousand of them are illegal hunters! This means that most people in Iran have this characteristic and even if they don’t have a gun, when they see an animal in nature, they throw a stone at it!

See, those who go to nature and harm the environment by leaving trash and setting trees on fire, have just as much impact on the destruction of the environment and wildlife as someone who builds a villa in the middle of the forest. These individuals are all like hunters with guns in hand. As the saying goes, “We must build a new world and start over.” The situation is very complicated. Nevertheless, it is not without reason that our wildlife has lost more than 90% of its population in the past 35 years; a wildlife that has been the result of a million years of trial and error by nature, we have destroyed in just three decades and the reasons are exactly what I mentioned.

Regarding the five-year ban on hunting, in your opinion, to what extent can this plan help the survival of the country’s wildlife?

Allow me to present three points to you: I proposed this plan in a more comprehensive way four years ago; my proposal was based on the 5-year “Nature Life” of Iran. Now, what does “Nature Life” mean?

Firstly, all construction activities in natural areas of Iran should be stopped until relevant criteria are developed. This means that the most important pressure and stress on our environment is destruction and occupation, not even pollution. Without environmental assessment, they build roads, dams, bridges, and towns without any approval from the Environmental Organization.

Secondly, there is a ban on logging in forest areas and harvesting plants in pastures. Do we even have a relative advantage in wood production!? A country with a forest per capita of one-sixth of the world average, why should it produce wood? On one hand, we have imposed heavy tariffs to prevent wood imports, and on the other hand, people can easily harvest wood from the forest! In my opinion, logging should be completely banned in Iran and instead, we should allow for the free import of wood, which is more natural.

And finally, that hunting also be stopped in these 5 years, which in my opinion is the least important of these matters.

In addition, in order to obtain a hunting license, there must be three prerequisites.

We must know how many animal species are living in the habitat where we are hunting.

2- We need to know the capacity and biological carrying capacity of that environment. That means we should have assumptions and know, for example, in that valley, based on the coverage and conditions, 200 animals can live. As an example, I will use the sheep: based on their reproduction rate, we know that there are 50 extra animals and we also know that if these 50 animals remain in nature, they will damage the vegetation and this number needs to be reduced. Hunting permits should also be issued based on the knowledge of the existence of leopards and tigers. But the important point is that we do not have accurate statistics of our habitats; no one can say with certainty that the number of this species in this particular habitat is exactly this much and the excess above their environmental capacity is this number, or find empty habitats and neighboring areas to transfer the excess animals there.

On the other hand, for example, it is possible that we have only obtained 100 hunting licenses, but there are 1000 people in nature who have guns and claim to be legal hunters with a license! Of course, the license they claim to have is not valid.

This also applies to forest protection; it is said that we have only given a limited number of permits, and that too only for old and dry trees! But according to documents and evidence, this is not the case. Just stand by the Abbas Abad road; trucks after trucks are taking wood out of this forest. Well, were all these trees old too!?

But if you say based on a 5-year plan that every person must be detained with a gun in hand and an axe in hand, because there is no permit, any truck or even a bicycle carrying a piece of wood must be stopped; this will prevent misuse. These actions make the work of environmental and forest guards easier and also provide an opportunity for the Environmental Protection Organization to establish its position; an environmental organization that is above ministries and is part of the presidential institution! But it cannot stop the Ministry of Industries, nor the Ministry of Roads, nor the Ministry of Oil, nor anyone else!

Mr. Karami, in your opinion, can increasing penalties lead to a decrease in hunting or a decrease in harm to wildlife?

It is definitely like this, but we must have the leverage to enforce punishment. People must have the culture of this matter. Let me give you an example: in this very city of Tehran, don’t people know that if we don’t have traffic regulations, the city will fall apart? Don’t they know that if they run a red light, or double park, etc., it is impossible to live in that city? People see the police who fines their car as a cruel criminal! We do not accept that the police should fine us! It is the same in nature.

How much do you know about your share and duty in protecting animals, especially felines?

We must divide people into two groups: unfortunately, those who are knowledgeable are not the ones who have the tools for hunting. Those who are in nature are local people and tribes, and they are often not the ones we can advise; so in fact, the ball is in the government’s court. But I firmly state that there is no serious will to preserve the environment. On the other hand, it is a fact that the demand of the people is not to preserve the environment, and it is natural that the government’s priority is not to preserve the environment. The people’s demand is to control inflation and lower the price of the dollar and similar issues, and the government also gives importance to these issues; now how successful it has been is another matter. Let me give you an example: Mr. Chananeh, who was the director general of public relations for natural resources for a long time, used to tell me that when Mr. Ahmadinejad went on provincial trips and people raised

Of course, informing and raising awareness in these areas is the responsibility of the government.

What is the current state of our environment and wildlife?

“It couldn’t get any more tragic! Let me be completely clear that we are rapidly losing everything. We are losing our natural heritage at an alarming rate, especially now that we are entering a period of drought. This drought means that water sources and vegetation are disappearing, soil erosion is intensifying, and what humans couldn’t do, nature will do this time! I am deeply concerned about our future and with all my scientific authority, I say that we are turning into Somalia! A barren and endless desert with hungry and displaced people!”

Mr. Karami, as a final question, please tell us what is the biggest crisis currently threatening the environment in Iran?

I believe that it is a drought crisis and this crisis will continue for years and will turn us into a completely desert and dry country and will change the outlook of Iran as a whole. The 10 countries that are known as the poorest among the world are countries without water and are suffering from drought, and we are on the verge of entering these 10 countries. This is a very important issue, but since everyone is busy with politics, they do not pay attention to it.

Thank you for taking the time to participate in the peace line.